Toothpick, ultra narrow tippy race boards. What would you want to know ?

[ukgm]

Two paddlers rode the downwind, technical race, long distance and sprint last weekend with 21.5 boards and were very far ahead.

Yep, their acceleration is quite staggering, let alone the balancing skills of top paddlers now using them in all kind of events.

[ukgm]

As ukgm noted it makes boards 24.5 wide pretty much obsolete for the top elite.

I asked Larry Cain on his facebook page what he was using these days. He said he was using his current 23 inch width sprint for all of his races now and will be moving to the 21.5 for next year. Another top racer who is also on Starboards team has told me he hadn't used his issued Allstar at all and even his Ace had only seen a couple of outings. I think we're going to be hitting a natural convergence of design for most typical races soon and a max width of 22 inches for those.

Wow - a 50+ year-old guy being internationally competitive on a 21.5” wide board? Incredible.

I find these feats by the older SUPers (eg. Dave Kalama also) more remarkable than even the extraordinary things that the likes of Kai are doing. To avoid injury and still have the desire to compete and train hard enough to do that, when into your 50s is almost unbelievable.  These guys must have wills of iron and a huge amount of self-discipline. I’m actually not sure I shouldn’t be feeling sorry for them - that degree of single-mindedness and drive must come at a price. But as long as they are still enjoying themselves then hat’s off to them - and I guess it beats working in some boring office somewhere.

To be fair on us mortals, Larry is ex C1 so he will have a higher starting position of balancing sensitivity. However, the bar is being set - if you don't paddle a board that narrow, you're just not going to feature in the results. Its everyone's (i.e. anyone over 35) worst nightmare.

I'm making enquires to see if I can demo the Fanatic out of curiosity.

[Lake Paddler]

When do you plan to release your video?
I'm trying to demo some boards this week so it would be nice to know more about your experiences.

[Eagle]

Two paddlers rode the downwind, technical race, long distance and sprint last weekend with 21.5 boards and were very far ahead.

Yep, their acceleration is quite staggering, let alone the balancing skills of top paddlers now using them in all kind of events.

What made the biggest impression for me was the low splash glide and efficiency.  Plus ease keeping the paddle shaft vertical vs wider boards.  Made 24.5+ boards feel very draggy and sluggish comparably.  What is surprising to me is the race use of 21.5 wide boards for DW and bigger waves.  Could be SB has finally lost their competitive advantage if the Strike is indeed more stable.

[Lake Paddler]

Two paddlers rode the downwind, technical race, long distance and sprint last weekend with 21.5 boards and were very far ahead.

Just to be sure: they were both on the new 21.5" wide Strike?

[ukgm]

When do you plan to release your video?
I'm trying to demo some boards this week so it would be nice to know more about your experiences.

It's gone to the magazine for their editing but I kept it reasonably generic in the end (rather than being an explicit review of that board). However, if you throw a list of questions here, I'll try and answer them.

[JEG]

I tested these board from 24.5 to 24 wide and that was a tippy experience, was a little faster with an even narrow stance. I just can't imagine how a 23 & 21.5 wide feels like though I'm looking forward to testing these toothpick boards.

[mr_proper]

Two paddlers rode the downwind, technical race, long distance and sprint last weekend with 21.5 boards and were very far ahead.

Just to be sure: they were both on the new 21.5" wide Strike?

No. One on the new Strike and one on the Sprint.
Both are very experienced, not heavyweight paddlers.

[Area 10]

21.5” wide is an innovation? I don’t think so: Six years ago, Jim Terrell was winning on a board that was 11 inches wide.

“My average speed was 8.5 miles [per hour] (13.6km/h) and the only way I was able to achieve this improvement was through experimenting with new SUP race equipment”.

http://www.supracer.com/jim-terrells-sprint-sup-racing-secrets/

So, the evolution he talks about has only just begun.

And with the ICF’s interest in running Olympic SUP races, you have JT’s observation:

“Right now there’s nothing stopping a canoe racer from turning up at a SUP race in their C1 canoe, lifting their back knee ever so slightly and smoking the field”.

http://www.supracer.com/the-death-and-rebirth-of-sup-racing/

And here is the result of using a board that is only 11 inches wide:

http://www.supracer.com/results-2012-silver-blade-regatta/

(ukgm- you need to find someone to build you one of Jim’s “bat boards” And while you are at it, develop a “plunge stroke”, use a fin that helps you paddle on one side for longer, and a big-bladed, shorter paddle. Your friends in British Canoeing will love you for it )

So, 21 inches a “toothpick”? Pah! 21” is gonna look like a touring barge within the next 6 years, and our kids will be looking back at this thread and laughing at what the old geezers thought was fast. If a middle-aged man could average 8.5mph just for fun in 2012, just think what a teenager who has grown up with SUP racing will be able to do in 2024 on a board that is 11” wide or less.

Sorry guys, but the only reason you can look even halfway respectable in a SUP race right now is that there are so few kids doing it, and the ones that are are being hobbled by having to use barge-like boards that are built with sales to middle-aged men with large disposable incomes (and middle-aged fanatasies of late-blossoming athletic glory) in mind.

[ukgm]

1) 21.5” wide is an innovation? I don’t think so: Six years ago, Jim Terrell was winning on a board that was 11 inches wide.

2) So, the evolution he talks about has only just begun.

3) “Right now there’s nothing stopping a canoe racer from turning up at a SUP race in their C1 canoe, lifting their back knee ever so slightly and smoking the field”.

4) And while you are at it, develop a “plunge stroke”, use a fin that helps you paddle on one side for longer, and a big-bladed, shorter paddle. Your friends in British Canoeing will love you for it )

1) A 21 inch wide board that can be paddled by the racing masses is an innovation. Jim's board was intentionally a high concept and would still be unusuable by most. The innovation isn't the adoption, it's the ability for it to be actually raceable without a change of paddler generation.

2) I agree. I think we'll be sub 20 within 2 years.

3) Until there is an inclination for C1's (not retirees) to come across, I don't think it will happen for a while. C1 is heavily steeped in tradition so I don't think they'll be the catalyst for innovation Jim was saying.

4) Ahead of you there. I had a chat with Jim about this 2 years ago and have already played with it. The only reason I hadn't pursued it seriously was due to the UK not having the race formats to support it at the time. However, that is changing and next year I was already toying with specialising on sprint stuff next year (as it fits in well with my training for dragonboat national team selection again).

[yugi]

21.5” wide is an innovation? I don’t think so: Six years ago, Jim Terrell was winning on a board that was 11 inches wide.
…
“Right now there’s nothing stopping a canoe racer from turning up at a SUP race in their C1 canoe, lifting their back knee ever so slightly and smoking the field”.
…
(ukgm- you need to find someone to build you one of Jim’s “bat boards” And while you are at it, develop a “plunge stroke”, use a fin that helps you paddle on one side for longer, and a big-bladed, shorter paddle. Your friends in British Canoeing will love you for it )
…

Well…   there is one thing that can avoid that. Allwater races.

Real life. I love it. I love going out in the choppy changing stuff.

So if a board is developed that can handle that stuff I’m all for it. Meanwhile the toothpicks that can only handle glass I’m not interested. I’d rather be waterskiing.

[Area 10]

21.5” wide is an innovation? I don’t think so: Six years ago, Jim Terrell was winning on a board that was 11 inches wide.
…
“Right now there’s nothing stopping a canoe racer from turning up at a SUP race in their C1 canoe, lifting their back knee ever so slightly and smoking the field”.
…
(ukgm- you need to find someone to build you one of Jim’s “bat boards” And while you are at it, develop a “plunge stroke”, use a fin that helps you paddle on one side for longer, and a big-bladed, shorter paddle. Your friends in British Canoeing will love you for it )
…

Well…   there is one thing that can avoid that. Allwater races.

Real life. I love it. I love going out in the choppy changing stuff.

So if a board is developed that can handle that stuff I’m all for it. Meanwhile the toothpicks that can only handle glass I’m not interested. I’d rather be waterskiing.

I doubt that rough water will make any real difference. The boards might be a couple of inches wider but they will still be out of the question for 99% of riders.

Active racers (like ukgm) should not create the formats and regulations for races. They will always just create a race they think they can do well at. Competitive people just can’t help themselves - it’s a kind of sickness

Fortunately IMO, up to now the ocean crew (which includes most of the main brands) have dominated the race formats and regulations. But I can’t see it staying like that, although a global recession because of Trump’s trade wars might just put the canoeists’ planned takeover of SUP on hold for a while. If there’s no money in it, they won’t be keen.

So it might be a couple of years before we see lane racing in flat water on 14” wide boards. But it is coming, and this will be no country for old men. So let’s go downwind and surf instead - it was always more fun anyway Maybe even foil...

[JEG]

how about they regulate the width of the race board, say 24 wide?

[pdxmike]

“Right now there’s nothing stopping a canoe racer from turning up at a SUP race in their C1 canoe, lifting their back knee ever so slightly and smoking the field”.

Has that been happening in the 5 years since he said it?

[Area 10]

“Right now there’s nothing stopping a canoe racer from turning up at a SUP race in their C1 canoe, lifting their back knee ever so slightly and smoking the field”.

Has that been happening in the 5 years since he said it?

Well, it happened when he did it!