Toothpick, ultra narrow tippy race boards. What would you want to know ?

[Eagle]

How it is compared to the narrowest (22.5/23.5") all-water boards, in particular with small chops in flat water.

In the last 2 days I have only encountered cross wake from slow moving pleasure boats but the board seems to cope ok. The primary stability isn't great but I actually think this means the chop bothers it less than you expect. Mind you, I do believe that I've spent so much time in my surf ski recently (whereby loose hips are essential to maintain balance) that this has cross pollinated back when I'm on a SUP.

^ Yep 100%. 

[Eagle]

In some ways -> the surfski balance vs power has maybe allowed Boothy to progress so fast to become one of the top elite in SUP. Diff is he has very good upper body strength vs many of his surf SUP peers.  Surfski will give you that advantage big time.  Now that he has the SUP technique and balancing upright on point -> he can kill on flat.  Question is how well he does in waves.  There Connor and Mo and Kai etc seem to have the advantage with their surf etc backgrounds.

[Area 10]

We can all paddle 21.5” wide boards on our own and on flatware. Hell, even I managed a couple of miles on one without falling, and my balance is hopeless.

Completely different matter dealing with 21.5” in the midst of a race, especially an ocean one. How the top guys like Travis manage to get almost every stroke perfect and the same under those conditions is the thing that is really amazing to me.

But this is just the start. We’ll be at 18” wide in no time. Watch a 10 year old get on a narrow board for the first time. They find it as hard as anyone else. But the difference is that 30 mins later they can be doing cartwheels on it. You can almost see their brain and vestibular systems adapting to the new demands by the minute. Once the kids can get their hands on these new narrower boards that are cast-offs from their parents, we are really going to see things change.

[Eagle]

Yep.  I put a 12 yo on my AS23 a couple of years ago.  He balanced fine on it.  Then put his brother who was 11.  Both had no probs at all.

Even put my son at 200 on it -> and he balanced ok last year.  So going to 21 and less for the top guns who do this as a living should be expected.

Before 21.5 was over the top narrow -> but now not so much.  ukgm has seen the light.  Question is -> will something a bit more stable like the 23 Sprint give him the speed he needs to move up the ranks and keep him interested in racing?  Hmm?

[ukgm]

When are you selling it?

I've just got back from day 2's paddle with it. I have to put a few braces in and my stroke would need complete retooling with it. I put in one of impromptu paddles over one of my flatwater time trial courses. Placebo's aside, I would say I was only able to apply about 95% of full power (and I'd already done a 2 hour hard bike session that only finished an hour before it) but I obliterated my course record by nearly 5%......

My worst fears have been born out - This board is probably beyond most of us (I don't believe I could race it in a large mass start) but the free speed on offer is basically frightening compared to my 24.5 Allstar and has reduced most boards that are wider to being dinosaurs. It would be a one way purchase though - you'd never be able to sell this on. It's where you realise that you've seen the future and you're not part of it. 

LoL

Hang in there, mate. I'm guessing if you use only that board in all conditions in about a year you'll get pretty good at it. And in another even better.

It'll also do wonders to your motivation to stick to a strict diet.

That's my current dilemma. I was only testing this for a laugh but even my buffoon balance leads me to wonder whether i could train myself into competency with this board.

I think I've abandoned the idea of getting an Allstar 23.5, its just not competitive enough and enough of a change from where I am. The 23 sprint might be enough and has the volume for my weight. I'm actually 4Kg too heavy for thre 21.5 spec so I don't know what the impact of that means. Any ideas ?

[ukgm]

Question is -> will something a bit more stable like the 23 Sprint give him the speed he needs to move up the ranks and keep him interested in racing?  Hmm?

A 23 would be perfect with todays form (plus I might be able to lay my hands on one) but do i go all in and just go for the 21.5. Its a great board to paddle when you're going fast but it's terrible when you're not. It requires 100% attention at all times.

The tracking and paddling biomechanics of a narrow board are just fabulous.

[ukgm]

1) Completely different matter dealing with 21.5” in the midst of a race, especially an ocean one. How the top guys like Travis manage to get almost every stroke perfect and the same under those conditions is the thing that is really amazing to me.

2) But this is just the start. We’ll be at 18” wide in no time. Watch a 10 year old get on a narrow board for the first time. They find it as hard as anyone else. But the difference is that 30 mins later they can be doing cartwheels on it. You can almost see their brain and vestibular systems adapting to the new demands by the minute. Once the kids can get their hands on these new narrower boards that are cast-offs from their parents, we are really going to see things change.

1) This is now my dilemma. Yeah, I can move this thing at 9.5kph+ no problem but there is no way I could race this thing in a bunch. However, just how trainable is that at age 43 and only paddling SUP twice a week ? Having spoken to a friend of mine on Starboard's roster, he told me that it took him until a board this narrow for him to break the 10kph average speed barrier in a race.

2)..... which is why I wonder if I should go down the 21.5 route now just to try and keep up and see which way the wind is blowing. 20 must surely be imminent but I'm not sure how narrow we could go before biomechanically it doesn't make any sense to go further.

I wonder if a stopgap might be to drop a ventral fin in one to slow the primary stability roll down a bit (which is horrendous).

[Lake Paddler]

How it is compared to the narrowest (22.5/23.5") all-water boards, in particular with small chops in flat water.

In the last 2 days I have only encountered cross wake from slow moving pleasure boats but the board seems to cope ok. The primary stability isn't great but I actually think this means the chop bothers it less than you expect. Mind you, I do believe that I've spent so much time in my surf ski recently (whereby loose hips are essential to maintain balance) that this has cross pollinated back when I'm on a SUP.

Nice. It's good to know that one can train his balance to be able to paddle a 21.5" wide board, even for a big guy like you.

[Lake Paddler]

How many more hours do you plan to spend on this board? Would be interesting to observe the learning (balance) curve.
Although you might eventually switch to a slightly wider board, this could still be beneficial as a sort of training, I reckon.

[Eagle]

Question is -> will something a bit more stable like the 23 Sprint give him the speed he needs to move up the ranks and keep him interested in racing?  Hmm?

A 23 would be perfect with todays form (plus I might be able to lay my hands on one) but do i go all in and just go for the 21.5. Its a great board to paddle when you're going fast but it's terrible when you're not. It requires 100% attention at all time.

The tracking and paddling biomechanics of a narrow board are just fabulous.

100%.  If in your shoes would go for the 23 Sprint and get familiar with that board in slop and chop over the next race year.  Then drop to the 21.5 once proficient.  It took me about a year to get used to the quick roll on my AS23 if that helps.  But still after 2 years -> getting hit with reflected chop and slop from the side really slows me down.  So get used to that first plus mass start chopped up waters. 

A ventral should def help tho. 

[ukgm]

Question is -> will something a bit more stable like the 23 Sprint give him the speed he needs to move up the ranks and keep him interested in racing?  Hmm?

A 23 would be perfect with todays form (plus I might be able to lay my hands on one) but do i go all in and just go for the 21.5. Its a great board to paddle when you're going fast but it's terrible when you're not. It requires 100% attention at all time.

The tracking and paddling biomechanics of a narrow board are just fabulous.

100%.  If in your shoes would go for the 23 Sprint and get familiar with that board in slop and chop over the next race year.  Then drop to the 21.5 once proficient.  It took me about a year to get used to the quick roll on my AS23 if that helps.  But still after 2 years -> getting hit with reflected chop and slop from the side really slows me down.  So get used to that first plus mass start chopped up waters. 

A ventral should def help tho. 

I suspect you're right. Plus I'm pretty sure I could sell on a 23 inch wide board (or have more of a chance than I would with the 21.5 which would be extremely difficult).

[ukgm]

How many more hours do you plan to spend on this board? Would be interesting to observe the learning (balance) curve.
Although you might eventually switch to a slightly wider board, this could still be beneficial as a sort of training, I reckon.

No more than I do now (which is 2-3 sessions and no more than 4 hours per week total).

[ukgm]

The narrowest Allstar is 22.5 but is only 258L and only rated to paddlers of upto 70Kg. The 23.5 is only rated to 80Kg (and I'm 88Kg). The only viable option I could see anyway is a 23 sprint or to chance the 21.5 (85Kg limit). My brass ones say 21.5 but my head says the 23 is probably smarter. I could sell the 23 on and give that 100% full power now.

[Eagle]

"My brass ones say 21.5 but my head says the 23 is probably smarter. I could sell the 23 on and give that 100% full power now."

Haha!  Maybe get polishing them like in the vid.  Nah.  JK.  Pure torture I can assure you in slop and chop.  The 23 Sprint should give you what you are needing at the moment.   

[JEG]

How many times do you paddle a week ukgm? I think if you got all the time in world like boothy you can do it on that 21.5 board.