Author Topic: 14' vs unlimited  (Read 3790 times)

yugi

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14' vs unlimited
« on: July 31, 2018, 03:56:40 AM »


"Stock" 14' boards still in the game.

Interesting that Josh Riccio got 5th in Molokai-2-Oahu on a 14' "stock" board. 8 stock 14's in the top 25.

As cool as it is that stock 14's are holding their own I'm not just a die-hard old-school guy. I'm totally jonesing for a foil. So small, so simple, so damn fast.

So cool Kai Lenny rides strapless for ocean cruising.

gzasinets

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Re: 14' vs unlimited
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2018, 07:01:22 AM »
The most fun I had on Maliko when I switched from unlimited to 14v3 bullet. It felt like going from Mercedes s to Lamborghini. So much fun!
SIC Bullet 17.4 V1 Ultralight & F16 V1  (available for rent on Maui - pm me)
JL SuperTech 8.8
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2016 SIC Bullet 14V2 SCC
2016 Imagine Icon 9.6 W
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QB Kanaha 90
KeNalu Mana 82/90

JEG

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Re: 14' vs unlimited
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2018, 03:46:17 PM »
yes 14 is still in the game and will stay there I think but the 12'6" will probably go out of fashion. I think UL is nice but the storage and size would make it hard for some people.

ukgm

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Re: 14' vs unlimited
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2018, 02:06:19 AM »
yes 14 is still in the game and will stay there I think but the 12'6" will probably go out of fashion. I think UL is nice but the storage and size would make it hard for some people.

it's not a question of fashion - 12'6 is a race length really and with the ISA and ICF committed to 'upto 14' ft as a racing length, 12'6 will be dead from 2019. Naish have already stopped making them I think and I know that distributors didn't really bother ordering them this year.

Area 10

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Re: 14' vs unlimited
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2018, 02:24:29 AM »
yes 14 is still in the game and will stay there I think but the 12'6" will probably go out of fashion. I think UL is nice but the storage and size would make it hard for some people.

it's not a question of fashion - 12'6 is a race length really and with the ISA and ICF committed to 'upto 14' ft as a racing length, 12'6 will be dead from 2019. Naish have already stopped making them I think and I know that distributors didn't really bother ordering them this year.
It’s all about fashion. The races will follow what the brands make, and the brands respond to demand. It is remarkable how many brands are now producing UL boards, back from a time a couple of years ago when only SIC did (and a time before that when a couple more did). Soon, people will want to race their ULs, and it will give hope to bigger (and older) guys, and the race organisers will respond to the demand. Then hey presto we have UL class worldwide. It only really takes one bold organiser to do it and then everyone follows suit. Fashion. If you’d been SUPing from the outset you’d have seen how quickly things change.

Of course, the advent of good-performing UL inflatables would change everything too. They’d then be no reason not to have an UL.

ukgm

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Re: 14' vs unlimited
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2018, 05:39:17 AM »
If you’d been SUPing from the outset you’d have seen how quickly things change.

Of course, the advent of good-performing UL inflatables would change everything too. They’d then be no reason not to have an UL.
Yes, you had K15's before and the organisers killed off allowing the extra length. Allowing UL's a second time around is a different proposition whereby to get acceptance may require legislative change.

As for ULi's, Starboard loaned out there UL Allstar for the head of the dart this year (the only race left in the UK that had a UL class). That looked fabulous.

yugi

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Re: 14' vs unlimited
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2018, 05:54:28 AM »
... whereby to get acceptance may require legislative change.
...

???

Hellooooooo. As if there was any.

err... I mean...

Yes. I run the world SUP legislation. Send your donation to the world headquaters towers [at my address]. $15 million or so should do the trick.

pdxmike

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Re: 14' vs unlimited
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2018, 08:52:43 AM »
This video isn't about world SUP regulation, but nevertheless it gives a good feeling for how the process works:



yugi

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Re: 14' vs unlimited
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2018, 09:48:59 AM »
See.

That's why it's going to cost $15 mil.

We're going to have to completely re-retronurvurate the hydrocoptic marsalveins with different panametric fams. So they re-align with the longer semi foiloid staters.

I can show you a chart.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 09:55:16 AM by yugi »

Area 10

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Re: 14' vs unlimited
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2018, 10:47:49 AM »
And somehow we are back to the subject of Starboard “porpoise power”...

ukgm- UL boards have been “allowed” at every UK race. You just have to not care about standing on a podium and getting a piece of cheap metal worth 50p. I don’t, so if I had an UL suitable for a UK race, and it was an interesting race to do (the Dart counts), then I’d do it on the UL. So would all of my paddle buddies.

An unlimited class SIC RS would be AWESOME!!

If I’m thinking it, others will be too. And then the race organisers will find themselves pestered by people wanting to race their UL Starboards, and the class will be back. And then you stand a good chance of taking line honours at every UK race!

There were two UL boards at the start: K15 and the Glide/Javelin 17. But politics in Hawaii (and the difficulty of getting UL class boards into a retail unit) killed the UL class, not the racers. The racing landscape is different now, and heaven knows the retailers need something new to persuade people to upgrade from their existing 14s. New UL class boards would do that. Pretty much everyone who owns a 14 would very quickly buy a UL version of the board they currently own, once they tried one.

Build them, and they will come... :)







- UL

JEG

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Re: 14' vs unlimited
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2018, 02:56:11 PM »
yes, build more UL please  ;)

ukgm

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Re: 14' vs unlimited
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2018, 02:59:42 PM »
And somehow we are back to the subject of Starboard “porpoise power”...

ukgm- UL boards have been “allowed” at every UK race. You just have to not care about standing on a podium and getting a piece of cheap metal worth 50p.

Not true (and since I'm on one of the committees, I've actually lobbied recently to formally reintroduce it). There is no start allocation given. If you can't race, can't be recognised and don't have anyone to race against, there is no allowance. You as well just go for a paddle somewhere.

ukgm

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Re: 14' vs unlimited
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2018, 11:56:01 PM »
And somehow we are back to the subject of Starboard “porpoise power”...

ukgm- UL boards have been “allowed” at every UK race. You just have to not care about standing on a podium and getting a piece of cheap metal worth 50p.

Not true (and since I'm on one of the committees, I've actually lobbied recently to formally reintroduce it). There is no start allocation given. If you can't race, can't be recognised and don't have anyone to race against, there is no allowance. You as well just go for a paddle somewhere.

Just as an addition, the only races that grant a start to a UL in the UK is the Head of the Dart (prizes awarded too if 5 show up) and the Icon Downwinder. All the other events have a formalised set start protocol order that doesn't allow for a UL (I.e. GB SUP events) or just no recognition of it. It's a shame but to be honest, I don't the think the rank and file paddler is that concerned (or disadvantaged) by this.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2018, 12:29:44 AM by ukgm »

Area 10

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Re: 14' vs unlimited
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2018, 01:25:42 AM »
Ok, well that’s a change in the wrong direction in the last couple of years then, and suggests that you and your colleagues are partly responsible for the drop-off in new people racing in the UK. IMO you need to take a long hard look at yourselves, and think about what you are trying to achieve.

This kind of BS is perhaps the main reason I don’t race any more. The more you regulate, the less likely you are to appeal to the early adopters and innovators who made the the sport popular in the first place. But I enjoy being around those people.

You, of all people, should be fighting for an UL class, because you personally would benefit from it more than most. I reckon you could be UK champ on an UL.

Some people just love clear hierarchical social structures, and rules and regulations (that they control).  Authoritarian types. I guess it’s inevitable that these people will slowly begin to take over the representative bodies of any sport, and suck the fun, variety, and innovation out of it.

ukgm

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Re: 14' vs unlimited
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2018, 02:28:03 AM »
1) Ok, well that’s a change in the wrong direction in the last couple of years then, and suggests that you and your colleagues are partly responsible for the drop-off in new people racing in the UK.

2) IMO you need to take a long hard look at yourselves, and think about what you are trying to achieve.

3) The more you regulate, the less likely you are to appeal to the early adopters and innovators who made the the sport popular in the first place.

4) You, of all people, should be fighting for an UL class, because you personally would benefit from it more than most. I reckon you could be UK champ on an UL.

5) Some people just love clear hierarchical social structures, and rules and regulations (that they control).  Authoritarian types. I guess it’s inevitable that these people will slowly begin to take over the representative bodies of any sport, and suck the fun, variety, and innovation out of it.

1) After a power shift from UK SUP to GB SUP this year (I won't bore you with the politics or history), numbers are actually up this year - partly as the latter has analysed the one race and attempted to replicate the biology of the one race I consider successful (HOD) which has 250 paddlers (of which 150 are in the leisure/cruising class).

2) The organisation wisely has conducted surveys and stakeholder surveys of those who currently race and those that do not. That's a smarter way to align to what you think the market you're aiming at wants.

3) Maybe, maybe not. I'm certainly not seeing any evidence of that though. There has been over the last year a transition of some of the more longstanding paddlers to other disciplines but that doesn't seem to be SUP's fault and seems to be due to the natural lifecycle of a racer (which in my experience anecdotally is around 5-6 years). If you don't regulate, you turn a sport into a widespread arms race with chequebook racing becoming a major factor. History is saturated with examples of that and led to some sports dealing with it better than the others (the Laser sailing dinghy was born out of that crisis and the Naish One SUP class is currently doing well).

4) I don't fancy incurring the costs just to be a banner waver for a class that I don't believe has widespread appeal in the masses. I think its great for downwind events but that not where the masses are anyway. Any medal should be judged by the calibre of its opposition in my view.

5) ..... or they just want a 'fair' race. Even F1 has to be regulated heavily. 

 


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