Author Topic: Need help: flatwater hard boards for long-distance racing/touring  (Read 36645 times)

Lake Paddler

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Re: Need help: flatwater hard boards for long-distance racing/touring
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2018, 03:29:07 AM »
There’s a lot of info on this forum and more generally on the web about the All Star differences 2017 vs 2018. You just have to search for it.
Thanks. I'll do it.
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2490 Euros for a 2017 Board doesn’t seem like that much of a bargain to me. The 2019 boards will be out within a few weeks, making this a 2 yr-old design. Some people prefer the 2017 to the 2018, but a 2 yr old board should be going pretty cheap. I’d offer them no more than 2200, maybe even 2000, and see what they say. I should think they’d be very keen to offload it right now, before the new stock  arrives. The market for 23” wide boards is pretty small.
That's great to know! I think I'll wait for the new stock to arrive and then try to negotiate with them. Meanwhile just do as many demos as possible.

Lake Paddler

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Re: Need help: flatwater hard boards for long-distance racing/touring
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2018, 03:38:04 AM »
The market for 23” wide boards is pretty small.

Yes usually there are plenty of narrow AllStar or narrow Sprint for sale close to the end of the season.
1) It seems that SB has a strong rebate program for racers so the starting price is lower and after the first weeks it starts going down
Simply out of curiosity: how does this rebate program work? Do racers get a discount to buy a new model, and this discount increases over time? Is that what you mean?

Luc Benac

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Re: Need help: flatwater hard boards for long-distance racing/touring
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2018, 06:34:54 AM »
The market for 23” wide boards is pretty small.

Yes usually there are plenty of narrow AllStar or narrow Sprint for sale close to the end of the season.
1) It seems that SB has a strong rebate program for racers so the starting price is lower and after the first weeks it starts going down
Simply out of curiosity: how does this rebate program work? Do racers get a discount to buy a new model, and this discount increases over time? Is that what you mean?

It might vary with brands and regions and might not be the same for everybody. What was hinted to me by people in the program, is that new generation boards are purchase at a discount over retail but there is somewhat an obligation to update every year to stay in the program. Last year boards are then resold without loosing much money or at all. At least if was supposed to be like that before, but it might have become more difficult now as brands might be looking more cautiously at their operating and promotion costs. And of course once the market of aspiring racers or paddlers just hitching to get a narrow race board flattens then the resale might become and issue. I remember seeing on our used SUP sale group, the same AllStars going for sale at two very different price level and I while I do not know everybody at all on our local scene, I could not prevent thinking that it also reflected the one that had paid retail and the ones that did not in the used price.
Sunova Allwater 14'x25.5" 303L Viento 520
Sunova Torpedo 14'x27" 286L Salish 500
Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L Andaman 520
Sunova Steeze 10' x 31" 150L
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Lake Paddler

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Re: Need help: flatwater hard boards for long-distance racing/touring
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2018, 05:14:33 AM »
It might vary with brands and regions and might not be the same for everybody. What was hinted to me by people in the program, is that new generation boards are purchase at a discount over retail but there is somewhat an obligation to update every year to stay in the program. Last year boards are then resold without loosing much money or at all. At least if was supposed to be like that before, but it might have become more difficult now as brands might be looking more cautiously at their operating and promotion costs. And of course once the market of aspiring racers or paddlers just hitching to get a narrow race board flattens then the resale might become and issue. I remember seeing on our used SUP sale group, the same AllStars going for sale at two very different price level and I while I do not know everybody at all on our local scene, I could not prevent thinking that it also reflected the one that had paid retail and the ones that did not in the used price.
I wonder whether there is something else which can account for the two different price levels. Not sure if discount really gets reflected in the resell price.

ukgm

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Re: Need help: flatwater hard boards for long-distance racing/touring
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2018, 07:34:09 AM »
It might vary with brands and regions and might not be the same for everybody. What was hinted to me by people in the program, is that new generation boards are purchase at a discount over retail but there is somewhat an obligation to update every year to stay in the program. Last year boards are then resold without loosing much money or at all. At least if was supposed to be like that before, but it might have become more difficult now as brands might be looking more cautiously at their operating and promotion costs. And of course once the market of aspiring racers or paddlers just hitching to get a narrow race board flattens then the resale might become and issue. I remember seeing on our used SUP sale group, the same AllStars going for sale at two very different price level and I while I do not know everybody at all on our local scene, I could not prevent thinking that it also reflected the one that had paid retail and the ones that did not in the used price.
I wonder whether there is something else which can account for the two different price levels. Not sure if discount really gets reflected in the resell price.

Talking from an ex team paddler stance, it does. All we aimed to do was cover the cost of what we’d had discounted. We knew the secondhand market  hold be challenging so provided it was cost neutral you’d sell - often well under value. I bought my current board under the same thing.

Luc Benac

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Re: Need help: flatwater hard boards for long-distance racing/touring
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2018, 08:06:04 AM »
All we aimed to do was cover the cost of what we’d had discounted. We knew the secondhand market  hold be challenging so provided it was cost neutral you’d sell - often well under value.

Of course with score of new "used" race board going on the market every year, unless there is an exponential number of new racer candidates or narrow board wannabe, then the local scene become saturated and the prices go even lower for narrow race boards; while it maintains some value for wider boards. Anything 23" or under should be going for a song.i.e. 2017 Sprint 21.5 for CAD 1,500 or one third of its retail while a 2017 AllStar 27 keeps over CAD 2,500 or two third of its retail. Likely the same for 25/24.5.
Sunova Allwater 14'x25.5" 303L Viento 520
Sunova Torpedo 14'x27" 286L Salish 500
Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L Andaman 520
Sunova Steeze 10' x 31" 150L
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Lake Paddler

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Re: Need help: flatwater hard boards for long-distance racing/touring
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2018, 12:56:15 PM »
Talking from an ex team paddler stance, it does. All we aimed to do was cover the cost of what we’d had discounted. We knew the secondhand market  hold be challenging so provided it was cost neutral you’d sell - often well under value. I bought my current board under the same thing.

All we aimed to do was cover the cost of what we’d had discounted. We knew the secondhand market  hold be challenging so provided it was cost neutral you’d sell - often well under value.

Of course with score of new "used" race board going on the market every year, unless there is an exponential number of new racer candidates or narrow board wannabe, then the local scene become saturated and the prices go even lower for narrow race boards; while it maintains some value for wider boards. Anything 23" or under should be going for a song.i.e. 2017 Sprint 21.5 for CAD 1,500 or one third of its retail while a 2017 AllStar 27 keeps over CAD 2,500 or two third of its retail. Likely the same for 25/24.5.

I see. Thanks a lot for sharing! It's great to know that the price of narrow race boards should drop faster. ;D
I've contacted a local retailer to see if he could conjure up some bargains for me.

Luc Benac

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Re: Need help: flatwater hard boards for long-distance racing/touring
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2018, 01:29:04 PM »
I see. Thanks a lot for sharing! It's great to know that the price of narrow race boards should drop faster. ;D
I've contacted a local retailer to see if he could conjure up some bargains for me.

We were talking about previous year USED race boards sold by "sponsored" racers. You kind of need to follow that crowd and where they are selling these boards.
The guy that has shelved over $4K for a brand new race board is unlikely to try to sell it under $2.5K.
Sunova Allwater 14'x25.5" 303L Viento 520
Sunova Torpedo 14'x27" 286L Salish 500
Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L Andaman 520
Sunova Steeze 10' x 31" 150L
Blackfish Paddles

Lake Paddler

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Re: Need help: flatwater hard boards for long-distance racing/touring
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2018, 11:42:54 PM »
We were talking about previous year USED race boards sold by "sponsored" racers. You kind of need to follow that crowd and where they are selling these boards.
The guy that has shelved over $4K for a brand new race board is unlikely to try to sell it under $2.5K.
That local retailer does seem to know several team paddlers who would coach some special sessions at his test center. I surely hope that they are going to sell their previous year boards in the next few weeks.
I also searched the internet for this kind of board, but could only find very few in online shops (explicitly annotated as team paddler boards). Definitely not on ebay. This gave me the impression that the market here is really small. ???

ukgm

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Re: Need help: flatwater hard boards for long-distance racing/touring
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2018, 01:10:28 AM »
I see. Thanks a lot for sharing! It's great to know that the price of narrow race boards should drop faster. ;D
I've contacted a local retailer to see if he could conjure up some bargains for me.

We were talking about previous year USED race boards sold by "sponsored" racers. You kind of need to follow that crowd and where they are selling these boards.
The guy that has shelved over $4K for a brand new race board is unlikely to try to sell it under $2.5K.
Yep, this is pretty much going to be my method moving forwards now. Buying a ex-team board that is only 6 months old for less than half of its value. The only boards I see that hold better money secondhand and sell in days are 14ft Starboard allstars no narrower than 25 inches in width. Once you go below 25, buy very carefully.

yugi

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Re: Need help: flatwater hard boards for long-distance racing/touring
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2018, 02:50:19 AM »
^ outside UK & US people weigh less on average. So that advice depends where you are.

Area 10

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Re: Need help: flatwater hard boards for long-distance racing/touring
« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2018, 04:01:02 AM »
Yeah, in Japan people may want different dimension boards.

The best thing to do financially is to buy a good board that you enjoy paddling, and then ride it forever. There’s remarkably little extra speed or time to be gained from going from one good board design to another, anyway. There’s a limit to what you can do with the 14ft palette and a rider already in their 20s or older.

ukgm

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Re: Need help: flatwater hard boards for long-distance racing/touring
« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2018, 04:53:53 AM »
^ outside UK & US people weigh less on average. So that advice depends where you are.

It’s not so much a practical rationale based on body weight and subsequent stability though but there seems to be a general reluctance (psychological or perceptive I’d say) of buyers to buy sub 25 narrow race boards. It’s possibly due to such boards requiring more attention to paddle when you’re not racing and recreational use seems to be just as important to many.it might take a few more years for recreational paddlers to realise that 24 or even 23 width boards aren’t the challenge they used to be.

yugi

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Re: Need help: flatwater hard boards for long-distance racing/touring
« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2018, 05:15:01 AM »
From what I see in the countries that don't allow growth hormones in meat farming: the keen recreational fitness type person who has progressed enough to be interested in a race board are by majority interested in sub 25 wide boards.

Why? Because the fast fit guy/girl who tends to do well enough in races and then gets keen enough to invest and train for better racing results tend to be that light outdoor fitness build.

Come see for yourself. I think you'll be impressed with the race scene in France and Switzerland. I think it's still developing and people are getting good. And keen.

My guess is the over 25 wide boards being sold 2nd hand don't need to be top notch race boards but a bit more touring oriented.

Which brings us back to the OP's (original poster) question. Did you want a tippy fast race board or one that can do touring too. You did mention touring in your post. Fitness touring I presume.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2018, 05:17:39 AM by yugi »

Lake Paddler

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Re: Need help: flatwater hard boards for long-distance racing/touring
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2018, 06:25:11 AM »
I see. Thanks a lot for sharing! It's great to know that the price of narrow race boards should drop faster. ;D
I've contacted a local retailer to see if he could conjure up some bargains for me.

We were talking about previous year USED race boards sold by "sponsored" racers. You kind of need to follow that crowd and where they are selling these boards.
The guy that has shelved over $4K for a brand new race board is unlikely to try to sell it under $2.5K.
Yep, this is pretty much going to be my method moving forwards now. Buying a ex-team board that is only 6 months old for less than half of its value. The only boards I see that hold better money secondhand and sell in days are 14ft Starboard allstars no narrower than 25 inches in width. Once you go below 25, buy very carefully.
Thanks again for the advice! Is your next board going to be a 2018 14ft All Star?

 


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