Author Topic: Impressions on first GoFoil rides  (Read 6724 times)

sharksupper

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 350
    • View Profile
    • Email
Impressions on first GoFoil rides
« on: June 03, 2018, 03:37:37 PM »
The winds finally died back for a little bit so I could get into the surf again.

For background, I learned on and surfed the Lift 170 foil for several months before getting these GoFoils.  Unfortunately my Lift foil was lost when the FoilMount it was connected to broke where the T-nuts were in the FoilMount tracks.  To it's credit they were nearly double over sets and crunching hard.  My fault really.

The past two days were my first days out with a new/proper track box installed.  I'm using an adapter to go from track box to Tuttle, which effectively adds 4" to the GoFoil mast height.  The Lift had a 28" mast, so I wanted to keep the height the same.

Conditions were perfect both days, waist to chest with occasional head high to over head sets.

I decided to try the IWA first, so I've just been riding that wing these two days.

I should have figured being so used to the Lift foil that I might find the GoFoil awkward to get used to.  That certainly was the case, although I'm now staring to get used to it's characteristics, better and worse.

Right away I noticed when paddling out that the GoFoil had much more drag.  I feels like my paddling speed is about half, but in reality it's probably about 20-30% slower.  Very noticeable.  This makes sense since the Lift has about 1/4" frontal exposure area, and the GoFoil has what looks like over an inch.  The Lift is also quite a bit lighter.

I kind of figured the GoFoil was going to need a lot more front foot pressure and so I was really far forward for my first drop in.  Even with this adjustment I way underestimated just how much nose up force the foil would produce and was launched off the back, like I was learning all over again!  Humbled!

Eventually I came to understand the trait of this IWA to be that at the onset of flight it massively loads up the front, and then after speed picks up to a normal pace it evens out again.  I found the IWA setup to have a very large dynamic pitch range which it wants to fly in compared to the Lift.  I'm now used to stomping all my weight on the front foot at initial drop in and then quickly jumping back after it's flying.  I have to say, this transition is quite dramatic compared to the Lift, which kind of just starts picking up pressure gradually.  I can't help but wonder if the rear wing (the big blue one) with the IWA doesn't have enough slow speed lift to match the IWA front wing.  Anyway, I found this to be a funny quirk to the foil.  Not a problem after you get used to it, but maintaining proper pitch angle at drop takes some real fine tuning to get right.

Ok, the first amazing thing I noticed about the IWA as just how slow it will maintain flight!  Every time I thought my flight was over and turned around to "land" the thing just kept flying!  It really feels like it flies at about 3mph!  No kidding!  Once I got my pumping technique back it was amazing pumping this thing!  Now I totally understand what I see in the videos with people pumping so well on these foils.  Incredible!  I was pumping with paddling between to keep up speed really well on my first tries!  Super stoked on this.

Dropping in is another area I thought would be easier, but I'm not sure it is.  The problem is the reduced paddling speed makes it harder to catch the wave, but then it makes up some of that by flying earlier.  On one wave I actually got the foil flying after the wave peak passed me and I was able to pump back over to the front!  That was a first!  At the end of the second day today I am pretty sure it's slightly harder for me to catch the waves compared to the Lift, very surprising, but I'm confident about this assessment.  The paddling speed is slower, no way around it.

At points in the sessions I felt like I might be over speeding the foil.  On some bigger/faster waves I would start to hear some cavitation and the foil would get really draggy.  I'm not sure though, because sometimes it would go fast and not do this, hard to say, definitely something going on there though at high speeds.

Handling is so different than I'm used to.  At first the foil felt a little tippy, but I quickly got used to that and actually at slow speeds it was kind of the opposite, it was harder to maneuver.  The IWA is much larger than the Lift foil, so all these comparisons are really not apples to apples exactly.  I think maybe comparing the Kai foil to the Lift might be a more accurate view of how they compare.

Anyway, I'm loving the hell out of the GoFoil so far!  It's taken some getting used to, but after a feeling out for a day I'm riding around like a champ and having way too much fun!   ;D

The added effective mast height is very welcomed!  I was still dipping rails and nose on high speed tight carves, with shorter I could not make those turns that hard.

The only thing I really miss right now is the much lower weight, faster paddling speed, and efficient high speed characteristics of the Lift.  Trading out the IWA for the Kai might solve a lot of that though.

Sick ass foil!  Get one!   8)

surfercook

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2273
  • Jersey Shore
    • View Profile
    • My YouTube
    • Email
Re: Impressions on first GoFoil rides
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2018, 03:51:27 PM »
Thanx for that detailed description of your new rig. Sounds like you got it wired pretty quickly. Guessing your lost foil is at the bottom of the ocean. The plate mount failed there in the large surf?
One could go into a mall in Kansas and ask a teenager "What is a surfer looking for?, and the answer will always be, "The perfect wave"
9'11" PSH Hull Ripper-145 ltr    
9'3" PSH  Hull Ripper- 130ltr 
8'0" Corevac Assassin -127 ltr   
Paddles- Carbonerro PRO SERIES 85 & Riviera Camo at 70"

sharksupper

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 350
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Impressions on first GoFoil rides
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2018, 04:02:19 PM »
I had a FoilMount (stick on track mount) on the board originally and I got hit by a 1.5 to 2x over head barrel and it ripped the T-nuts through the FoilMount track on one side, then as the foil pivoted it broke the plate mount of the foil where the remaining two bolts were.  I didn't have a safety line on the foil and I was in deep water 1/2 mile out, so sadly it's gone forever.  I really do miss that foil though, it was very good performing, even if not the strongest thing out there.

sharksupper

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 350
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Impressions on first GoFoil rides
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2018, 05:19:59 PM »
A couple of other things I forgot to mention.

I had a lot less breaching with the GoFoil on there.  I'm not talking about at drop in, but in just flying around.  This foil seems really happy to fly just under the surface and not breach.  It also had a much milder breach, not setting down quite as abruptly or hard.

Had I learned on the GoFoils vs the LIft, it would have been much easier and faster I think.  A larger fatter foil seems a lot more forgiving if you don't know what you're doing yet.  Some people (foilers) I've talked to on the water said they have never done sports with lots of speed and it was a challenge to get used to, so the GoFoils being slower are a very nice feature.  One of my friends actually had a foil over a year ago but he gave it up because it was too fast and scary for him to learn, as he told me.  I have to think that if he had been on a GoFoil he would have had a much better chance to get it down before giving up.

Califoilia

  • Axis Demo Rep
  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1510
  • San Clemente
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Impressions on first GoFoil rides
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2018, 05:27:53 PM »
I kind of figured the GoFoil was going to need a lot more front foot pressure and so I was really far forward for my first drop in.  Even with this adjustment I way underestimated just how much nose up force the foil would produce and was launched off the back, like I was learning all over again!  Humbled!
Humbled myself for sure on bigger stuff...and after I thought I had it figured out.

First time in head high stuff, took off with front foot weighed as usual, and board started lifting almost immediately, so I went as for forward as possible in my normal stance, so much so that I basically had my chest/belly on my front leg/knee...and even in this position the dang thing still kept lifting. To the point that while still in this awkward position, it just took off flying, and mast humming as I tried, but had no more weight to move forward fearing the worst...until that moment came, as the wing flew out of the water, and we dropped like we'd been shot, and over the handlebars I went. Fortunately this wasn't the first time I flew the wing out of the water, expected it to happen this time, and was able to launch myself forward well away from the board/foil...so no harm no foul. :o

Quickly learned that on steeper, taller swells, to simply move my rear foot forward (my front is in a strap, so no moving that forward), and that allowed me to move my weight just that much more forward, and problem solved...at least on those, have to see what happens if things happen to get even bigger (and I have the cajones to go out in them...maybe a Kai wing is in my future after all :)).

Quote
Dropping in is another area I thought would be easier, but I'm not sure it is.  The problem is the reduced paddling speed makes it harder to catch the wave, but then it makes up some of that by flying earlier.  On one wave I actually got the foil flying after the wave peak passed me and I was able to pump back over to the front!  That was a first!  At the end of the second day today I am pretty sure it's slightly harder for me to catch the waves compared to the Lift, very surprising, but I'm confident about this assessment.  The paddling speed is slower, no way around it.
Not that I had anything to compare it to other than a shorter SUP, I did find paddling into a wave was like I was in a wet slurry mix, but after watching, and talking to a guy who "pumps" into the wave earlier than I was ever able to....

https://youtu.be/1qy1KOqMinY?t=1m21s

...after a little practice, a session or two later I was finding myself able to do it on more waves than not when needed. With you already having the pump down with the Iwa, I think on the next session you should be able to feel when the swell is starting to move you but not to a point that you're going to get into it, and it's at that time that you start the paddle/pump to let the foil move/fly you into the wave as it sounds like you did on that one wave. And yes, on some, I swear that I'm actually starting to fly one the back side of the peak. Which is good, and bad, because on a couple...I managed to pump up over the peak on a couple much bigger ones, and was looking over the big cliff, that I just bailed off the back of not wanting to break the wing loose, and nose over to from on top of the board, on top of the mast, on top of the 5' way to the flats 12-13' below me.

Quote
The added effective mast height is very welcomed!  I was still dipping rails and nose on high speed tight carves, with shorter I could not make those turns that hard.
When at first the taller masts worried me being higher than I thought I might be comfortable with...but after some discussion with those who've used both, they're saying the longer mast gives more room, and is a less likely to blow out of the wave as easy or soon as the shorter ones. Made sense, and I'm thinking of going to a mast track, and adapter system just to add the additional 3" to see if that holds true or not.
Me: 6'1"/185...(2) 5'1" Kings Foil/Wing Boards...7'10 Kings DW Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm if/when the proning urges still hit.

jondrums

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 894
    • View Profile
Re: Impressions on first GoFoil rides
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2018, 11:35:19 PM »
Eventually I came to understand the trait of this IWA to be that at the onset of flight it massively loads up the front, and then after speed picks up to a normal pace it evens out again. 
...
I can't help but wonder if the rear wing (the big blue one) with the IWA doesn't have enough slow speed lift to match the IWA front wing.  Anyway, I found this to be a funny quirk to the foil.

I had the maliko, and upgraded to the IWA.  Its a much better foil, but I found the same thing you did!  I think it is actually the contrary - the rear wing is probably a little too large on the IWA.  The rear wing is responsible for a upward pitching moment (bringing the nose up).  I think the blue tail works quite well on the Mailko and Maliko 200, which both have more front wing lift.

To your point - with the IWA, I have caught several waves now where the nose pitched up dramatically right as I was about to fall out the back and miss the wave.  There is a little "stall" then I can push on the front foot gas pedal and off it goes like a bat out of hell down into the face.  Awesome feeling that I never felt on either Maliko foil.

You also mentioned that it doesn't ventilate as easily - I found this as well.  I think its the curved down wings.  With a flatter wing profile the tip is more likely to breach in a leaned over turn if you aren't deep down in the water.  Could also be your mast extension though

Dialy

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 68
    • View Profile
Re: Impressions on first GoFoil rides
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2018, 07:08:37 AM »
When I compare my GoFoil Iwa to the Naish Thrust or the Takuma V100, it is much lighter. It floats and provides extra vertical push to the tail of the board while the latter two sink and feel a bit like anchors while paddling. I am surprised that you think that the Lift is “quite a bit lighter “. How light can it be? Didn’t you say that it sank after coming  off the mount?

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25864
    • View Profile
Re: Impressions on first GoFoil rides
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2018, 08:32:28 AM »
Eventually I came to understand the trait of this IWA to be that at the onset of flight it massively loads up the front, and then after speed picks up to a normal pace it evens out again. 
...
I can't help but wonder if the rear wing (the big blue one) with the IWA doesn't have enough slow speed lift to match the IWA front wing.  Anyway, I found this to be a funny quirk to the foil.

Some of the better Maui foilers are playing around with the rear wings. I'm not good enough to feel much yet, but it's a good place to tune wing characteristics if you have some spares. Alex is making some additional rears, but some folks are just chopping.

Dialy--weight and buoyancy are two different things.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 08:34:02 AM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Beasho

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3224
    • View Profile
Re: Impressions on first GoFoil rides
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2018, 09:10:15 AM »
Had I learned on the GoFoils vs the LIft, it would have been much easier and faster I think. . . .
I had a lot less breaching with the GoFoil on there.  I'm not talking about at drop in, but in just flying around.  This foil seems really happy to fly just under the surface and not breach.

1) Moral of the Story: GoFoils WORK!!!!!  More specifically the IWA is the perfect wing for people from 170 to 200 lbs to learn and fly on.  Everyone else is playing catch up with Naish most on par with GoFoil at this time.  The rest will eventually outperform but I suspect the application for foils will start to branch out based upon local conditions, wave height, speed based upon usual wave period, whether used exclusively for surfing, behind a boat . . . .

2) Shark - I forget what the dimensions of your board are?  My experience has been that it takes 3 waves for me to get up and start flying a foil.  I started on a KAI foil and then the Maliko 160, Iwa and Maliko 200.  Adapting to a new foil was almost instantaneous.   Each new board however took several sessions to get comfortable with.  I have found bigger boards MUCH, MUCH easier to learn on.  The bigger boards have been much easier to paddle in getting in earlier on small waves and earlier on big waves making them less harrowing.   

Dialy

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 68
    • View Profile
Re: Impressions on first GoFoil rides
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2018, 01:39:35 AM »
“Dialy--weight and buoyancy are two different things.”


Yes, Bill, I agree and I remember what Archimedes figured out: “When a body is immersed in a liquid, the door bell rings..”
I was just assuming that the foils were of similar dimensions and volumes and that  the Lift, being “quite a bit lighter” than the GoFoil, would therefore also float. The Lift could be significantly smaller though. I would not know.
Besides the GoFoil, I am only familiar with the Naish Thrust and the Takuma which, as I have said are heavier and “sink” the tail a little when paddling.
Since switching to the GoFoil, I have been able to paddle a much smaller SUP foil board with ease and I am pretty happy with it.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 01:45:00 AM by Dialy »

surf4soul

  • Waikiki Status
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Impressions on first GoFoil rides
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2018, 08:40:12 AM »
I am a 6'5" 235lb foiler, spend a lot of time behind the boat on a Liquid Force impulse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5UYmA1AVuc
I ocean surf on a 5'10" skywalker with the H2 wing. Both the wings feel small for me and here is no chance for me to pump out to the lineup.

I like the way the impulse lets me go rail to rail, where the H2 wing really draws straighter lines.
I have been going back and forth on my next foil purchase and have been on the fence between the gofoil maliko 200 vs the lift 200. Your write-up was quite helpful and appreciated as it's the only comparison of the 2 wings on the internet.
Even after reading your impressions i am still torn between the 2 of them.
If you had to pick 1 wing which would you go with? The smoother lift of the lift sounds nice, but the Maliko and it's lift at slower speeds is also appealing. Any more of your perspective between the 2?

Beasho

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3224
    • View Profile
Re: Impressions on first GoFoil rides
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2018, 10:24:59 AM »

Had I learned on the GoFoils vs the LIft, it would have been much easier and faster I think.  A larger fatter foil seems a lot more forgiving if you don't know what you're doing yet.


If your objective is to surf then you should Go with the GoFoil Maliko (& IWA) Package - 100%

I am not sure what you are debating.  In the surf the low speed flight is absolutely necessary.  Everyone keeps going for the cheap option.  The World MAY get there but watch a  sample 100 surf foil videos of people performing.  70% are GoFoil, 20% Naish and then the rest.  The consistency is in these two brands.

Another reason the Lift is both "light" and SINKS is because it doesn't have camber.  The thick camber of the GoFoils is what makes them 1) Work and 2) Float.

People keep leaning towards small foils.  I put my 120 lbs daughter on the Maliko 200 and she was turning and flying great.  Grown men have no excuse to claim the foil is too big or doesn't turn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKx31uu2DPo
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 10:26:52 AM by Beasho »

surf4soul

  • Waikiki Status
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Impressions on first GoFoil rides
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2018, 10:37:38 AM »
Very helpful. Yes my primary objective for this purchase is for ocean surfing, slower breaks such as San Onofre and Hunting Beach reforms. I have to agree with you on the larger wings, to date I have only experienced wanting more lift. Looks like the gofoil is going to be my next purchase. Now debating on which 2 wings. IWA/200, or 200/280.
It doesn't seem like the 2018 GoFoil Tuttle to Track Adapter Plate works with the larger wings/mast. Can't reach anyone at Gofoil to discuss further. :o/

That was a great video, who shaped that SUP?
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 10:39:56 AM by surf4soul »

Bean

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4211
    • View Profile
Re: Impressions on first GoFoil rides
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2018, 11:26:41 AM »
The thick camber of the GoFoils is what makes them 1) Work and 2) Float.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKx31uu2DPo

How does the thick camber make the foil "work and float"? 
Do you mean like how the flaps on an airplane wing generates more lift at low speed?


Beasho

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3224
    • View Profile
Re: Impressions on first GoFoil rides
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2018, 12:41:46 PM »
How does the thick camber make the foil "work and float"? 
Do you mean like how the flaps on an airplane wing generates more lift at low speed?

Thicker foils with flat bottoms typically have more camber.  The more camber the more lift at lower speeds. 

The foils all (mostly) started as kite foils.  Kites can impose more 'thrust' than a typical wave resulting in higher speeds.  At higher speeds the thin foils are faster with lower drag profiles.

This picture below shows how thickness plays out.  What you can see is that a thicker foil, if it has a foam core, can have an overall density that is less than water.  Thin foils when they are mostly carbon for structure end up heavy with no foam to offset the high density of carbon and epoxy.

So the double whammy of THICK foils is that they can Float and Provide More Low Speed lift. 

 


SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal