Author Topic: Sharing Strategies from other Sports  (Read 40663 times)

photofr

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Sharing Strategies from other Sports
« on: May 21, 2018, 01:19:45 AM »
Sharing Strategies

Stand Up Paddleboarding is very much its own sport, but I believe we can all benefit from other sports that have been around for decades.

I actually love SUP, and I can see myself paddling a SUP for many years to come. However, here are issues that I think we can easily overcome.

NARROWER
This is an easy one: a little more glide would be nice. We should go narrower, and then fix stability issues. A narrower board would also mean a narrower stroke.

STABILITY – LOWER YOUR CENTER OF GRAVITY
Once we go narrower, boards tend to become rather instable. An easy fix from the World of surfskis is to completely lower your gravity, by standing merely 1.2 cm from the bottom of the hull, instead of the current 7cm. This would make us stand below water level, but will add a tremendous amount of stability to our boards – thus allowing us to go quite narrow. Since our feet will be below water level, we’ll have to fix another issue: water getting in the board, and draining that water with efficiency. We’ll have to add a scupper (drain hole) with a manual latch.

This is an interesting aspect, because by lowering your center of gravity, you go through the wind better (just like a bike you might say) – but it also allows you to use a smaller paddler (lighter, and therefore more maneuverable).

DRAIN HOLE
The newer drains in surfskis work so well! We could add a rider operated drain, taken straight out of a surfski if need be. That would allow us to go super narrow, to lower our center of gravity – and all of this without fearing water entering our craft.

LENGTH
This is another issue altogether, but 16 to 18 foot boards would also mean far better glide, more efficiency, and ultimately more speed. Many people have found UL boards to be faster – by a heck of a margin. The ones who haven’t found UL faster were probably using a board in excess of 15 kilos, without a rudder – and taking their boards in side winds for a miserable time. Truth be told, I am a featherweight paddler who have been on a 18+ foot board, with a rudder, with a rounded hull… and the thing seemed to be over 18 kilos. Bottom line, it was a fantastic experience, and I had more fun and more speed than most boards I have tried to date. Truth be told, we need boards to be far lighter in their construction, but strong!

CONSTRUCTION
We are heading in the right direction, especially as the #1 paddle craft builder in the World is now introducing ultra light boards that are very strong, and rigid as can be. This will allow us to take advantage of the surfski construction, and allow SUP paddlers to use UL boards that are very light.

RUDDER
Think what you want about rudders… but first understand this: Olympic kayakers, who, mind you, only travel in a straight line, have found huge advantages when they want with a fixed fin to a rudder. Look again, because today, 100% of Olympic Paddlers paddle with a rudder. Ultimately, rudders will make you faster, and make it safer when winds turn to side wind.

PHOTOS
The FIRST one shows an ultra low standing area – well below the waterline.

The SECOND image shows an overview of the lowered standing area.

The THIRD image shows a surfski drain – 100% foot operated. We could even use this existing one, add padding, and ensure we can quickly open and close it with the flick of a paddle if need be.










I hope you guys find this somewhat useful - and willing to try new things. There's no doubt though, that a longer board, that is narrower, having an overall reduced volume, and a standing area below the waterline will be FASTER - especially when equipped with a rudder. Combine it all, and we should get some real fun, amazing glides, and incredible versatility from our SUP.
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

ukgm

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Re: Sharing Strategies from other Sports
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2018, 02:41:54 AM »
So, put simply, you mean stand up canoeing then....  ;D

photofr

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Re: Sharing Strategies from other Sports
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2018, 04:20:16 AM »
The sport would remain the same - it would still be Stand Up Paddling.
The craft would evolve - to be more efficient.

Perhaps I am saying that you ought to try stand up canoeing to get the idea. :)
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

ukgm

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Re: Sharing Strategies from other Sports
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2018, 04:23:54 AM »
The sport would remain the same - it would still be Stand Up Paddling.
The craft would evolve - to be more efficient.

Perhaps I am saying that you ought to try stand up canoeing to get the idea. :)

Yes but you'd then upskill it and kill off the general participation side of the sport altogether. Races would be like C1 with one man and his dog taking part. I'm pro technology more than most but if you increase the skill (and we're heading there already with sub 22 inch width race boards), you demotivate your weekend warriors that make up most of the sport.

photofr

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Re: Sharing Strategies from other Sports
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2018, 04:28:55 AM »
That's the THING though... you don't have to increase the skills of the paddlers in order to obtain while getting:
- a narrower craft
- a more efficient craft

This is because you'd be lowering the standing area by so much (1.5cm from 6 or 7 cm is a huge difference, heck, 0.5 cm would be enormous).

I am not inventing something new - it's already been proven with other sports - like kayaking. It hasn't yet been implemented because manufacturers wanted a simple way to make lots of money with the least amount of work put into their boards.

If anything, I actually see participation as increased - when you factor in more stability / more directional / more versatile craft.
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

ukgm

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Re: Sharing Strategies from other Sports
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2018, 05:05:49 AM »
That's the THING though... you don't have to increase the skills of the paddlers in order to obtain while getting:
- a narrower craft
- a more efficient craft

This is because you'd be lowering the standing area by so much (1.5cm from 6 or 7 cm is a huge difference, heck, 0.5 cm would be enormous).

I am not inventing something new - it's already been proven with other sports - like kayaking. It hasn't yet been implemented because manufacturers wanted a simple way to make lots of money with the least amount of work put into their boards.

If anything, I actually see participation as increased - when you factor in more stability / more directional / more versatile craft.

..... except this would specialise the equipment for each kind of SUP paddling and the market in the main isn't made up of people who want to own or race 4 or 5 boards. Bear in mind this kind of thinking killed off windsurfing and stunted kiteboardings growth.

photofr

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Re: Sharing Strategies from other Sports
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2018, 05:13:30 AM »
Who said anything about "having to own 4 or 5 boards"?
Take a look at surfski then:
Even World Champions use... ONE SINGLE SKI for all conditions.

That's the beauty about having a rudder.
Surfskis can draft well when needed, surf like crazy, or go like a bat out of hell on the dead flat waters.
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

stoneaxe

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Re: Sharing Strategies from other Sports
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2018, 05:36:58 AM »
I hate this whole direction and hope it dies quickly. Just my opinion but this is standup paddle "boarding". I don't see a board in the picture.
Bob

8-4 Vec, 9-0 SouthCounty, 9-8 Starboard, 10-4 Foote Triton, 10-6 C4, 12-6 Starboard, 14-0 Vec (babysitting the 18-0 Speedboard) Ke Nalu Molokai, Ke Nalu Maliko, Ke Nalu Wiki Ke Nalu Konihi

ukgm

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Re: Sharing Strategies from other Sports
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2018, 05:40:00 AM »
Who said anything about "having to own 4 or 5 boards"?
Take a look at surfski then:
Even World Champions use... ONE SINGLE SKI for all conditions.

That's the beauty about having a rudder.
Surfskis can draft well when needed, surf like crazy, or go like a bat out of hell on the dead flat waters.
Not true. Some competitive surf skiers would use something like an Epic V14 on the flat but a V12 on surf. Plus surfski's don't have dedicated multi discipline races like we do. We have flatwater, technical and ocean races. They don't.

To give you a better example, I'm a reasonably competitive cyclist. I own around 8 or 9 bikes for a variety of races that I might do. I can't any one of them for all of the kinds of races I do if I'm looking for my best performance. As a result, you don't want SUP catered for guys like me. It will kill it.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 05:42:01 AM by ukgm »

photofr

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Re: Sharing Strategies from other Sports
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2018, 05:51:44 AM »
You are right UKGM - but only if you mention the odd ball surfski paddlers.

ONE SKI
Almost everyone I know uses a single ski for ALL their races.
Jasper Mocke, Oscar Challupsky, Sean Rice, Michael Booth, etc...

LOTS OF BIKES
I totally agree - I always paddled a single ski, but used several bikes. SUP doesn't have to be that way, and surfski paddling most certainly doesn't have to be like bikes.

MULTI DISCIPLINES FOR SURFSKIS
On almost any given surfski race, you have to be ready to:
- enter and/or exit the surf zone
- side wind
- head wind
- downwind
- dead flat water
One ski will do it all and/or excel at any one of these.

If someone owns a V14 and a V12 - and they paddle their V12 on a rough day - it's not because the V14 can't handle it, but it's most often due to the paddler's lack of abilities - unless the company forces you to ride the new V12 for show.

Either way, World paddlers who have access to any ski they want will systematically still to a single ski - so I don't see the argument there.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 05:56:01 AM by photofr »
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

photofr

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Re: Sharing Strategies from other Sports
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2018, 05:58:30 AM »
I hate this whole direction and hope it dies quickly. Just my opinion but this is standup paddle "boarding". I don't see a board in the picture.

You can't call an ACE board - but it is in fact a stand up paddle board.
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

Area 10

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Re: Sharing Strategies from other Sports
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2018, 05:59:25 AM »
Yes, ukgm is right.

If you want SUP racing to be popular (and heaven only knows why you’d want that, but that’s another matter altogether...) then you should look at the wants and needs of the many not the few. You guys are the few not the many so what you want is probably wrong.

The N1SCO type events are probably more the way it should be heading, if participation is your goal.

And race events that are “events”, with racing just one small part that can be ignored by most (and probably will be).

The last thing you want is weird-looking expensive specialised craft and intimidating athletes who the general population can’t identify with, and 10,000 hrs of practice before you can do it.

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Re: Sharing Strategies from other Sports
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2018, 06:01:30 AM »
I hate this whole direction and hope it dies quickly. Just my opinion but this is standup paddle "boarding". I don't see a board in the picture.

You can't call an ACE board - but it is in fact a stand up paddle board.
No it isn’t. It might be called one but it isn’t. There’s no reason to use an Ace unless you are a racer. There are much nicer and more versatile boards to use.

If you want to paddle a canoe then for heaven’s sakes do it properly and sit down.

photofr

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Re: Sharing Strategies from other Sports
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2018, 06:04:39 AM »
Let's keep an open mind:
Looking at a 10 kilos SUP 16x25 with a recessed deck below water level, with a rudder - that can be used in any and all conditions wouldn't appeal to recreational paddlers???

Keep in mind, the above specs would make that board more stable than a 12x28.

Note: I am not even talking about SUP racing - nor have I said anything about SUP racing.
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

photofr

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Re: Sharing Strategies from other Sports
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2018, 06:08:08 AM »
I hate this whole direction and hope it dies quickly. Just my opinion but this is standup paddle "boarding". I don't see a board in the picture.

You can't call an ACE board - but it is in fact a stand up paddle board.
No it isn’t. It might be called one but it isn’t. There’s no reason to use an Ace unless you are a racer. There are much nicer and more versatile boards to use.

If you want to paddle a canoe then for heaven’s sakes do it properly and sit down.

What makes you think that only a racer would own a 14x25 Ace?
Downwind FUN, anyone, any ONE?

The ACE GT, as heavy as it was, was in fact a super versatile board - fishing, camping, photography, downwind, cruising, intro to the sport (none of which have anything to do with racing) - and that thing was the furthest thing from a conventional BOARD.
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

 


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