Author Topic: Old article about why racing is declining so fast  (Read 13203 times)

JEG

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Re: Old article about why racing is declining so fast
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2018, 04:04:01 PM »
good read PonoBill  8)

Ichabod Spoonbill

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Re: Old article about why racing is declining so fast
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2018, 05:50:16 PM »
The surfboard class is one of the smallest classes in racing. I push for surfboard class at the races I attend, and often it's only me and one or two other people. Of course part of that is just that it's rarely advertised and often not even mentioned until close to the race date since I have to push for it. It's also kind of grim doing a distance race on a surfboard, but I've enjoyed it in the past--less so now that there isn't many fellow sufferers.


Maybe it's more popular on the east coast. I don't race a lot, but I entered surfboard class last race (in Connecticut) and there were close to twenty racers, counting men and women. I don't know why the difference, but it seems pretty popular out here.
Pau Hana 11' Big EZ Ricochet (Beluga)

PonoBill

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Re: Old article about why racing is declining so fast
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2018, 06:58:05 PM »
It's not the length of the board. It's the engine. Always has been, always will be.

Except no, it's not. We race for two miles. You go on a nine foot surfboard, and I'll take my 18' speedboard. If I don't smoke you, you can have my board. my paddle, and my boardshorts. If I win I get your boardshorts and you walk home.

Deal?
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

PonoBill

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Re: Old article about why racing is declining so fast
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2018, 07:01:12 PM »
The current sweet spot for a 14’ board is a very fit and capable paddler who is between 150 and 190 pounds,

That's a huge weight range of paddlers for the 14' class.  Not surprisingly, manufacturers/racers have been tweaking their board widths to tailor to their size and skill, yet no one has tried to optimize the length below anything other than the maximum 14 foot.  Not even a millimeter.  Apparently, 14' is not optimum for anyone. That is a pretty good indication that the entire class would increase their board length to some extent if they could. 
 
In a May 2016 interview with SUP Racer, (when talking about ocean racing) Travis Grant said, “I think unlimited stand up paddle boards could genuinely help drive the sport forward. These 16, 17, 18, even 19 foot boards are a great avenue for design and experimentation — not only is there no length restriction but there’s way more freedom to play around with the width, weight, thickness, rocker, steering and so on.”

So, how would local SUP racing look with 19+ foot boards?  Consider the effect on the logistics at your local venues. For instance, at the NYC race, boards are transported in cube vans.   Also , if you think a 14’ CF board is expensive, just wait till you price out a 19 footer.   

Sometimes I think, we don't give the average Joe enough credit to understand that something is amiss.  The fact that droves of 12 6  and 14 foot boards would be obsolete overnight with a simple rule change speaks volumes for the state of SUP racing.  Who wants to buy into that...

So how would a local SUP race with NO board limits. Run what you want to run. Let me guess at your weight. Less than 190 pounds. Am I more amazing than Kreskin or WHAT?!?
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Tom

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Re: Old article about why racing is declining so fast
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2018, 07:09:02 PM »
Maybe everyone should race the 12'1" Laird/Ron House board. That would be more fair because no one would have an advantage. ;)

PonoBill

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Re: Old article about why racing is declining so fast
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2018, 07:11:42 PM »
With a specified length, the board needs to be designed for the optimal weight paddler. For a 14’ board that used to be 170 to 190 pounds, for a 12’6” it was 150-180.

A simplified technical explanation is necessary here. A board moving through the water is subject to two main kinds of drag—lets call them skin drag and wave drag. Skin drag is roughly linear, the longer and wider your board is, the more skin drag you have to overcome.

A very fit paddler that weighs substantially less than optimal won’t push the board into wave friction territory. The added length only increases skin friction with no benefit. They could go just as fast and certainly go faster for longer periods, on a shorter board that suited their available muscle mass.

Very good article Bill. Nicely written as always.
But it I’m not sure if I’m not understanding something, or if there is  something wrong with the theory, because  that’s not what happens to me.
I weight just 155 pounds  and have two race boards. One is a 2011 Naish Javelin 14 x 27 and the other is a Starboard Allstar 12’6 x 26.
If I’m not missing something, in theory, at  my weight I should paddle faster on the  12’6.  But on flat water, I paddle much faster on the Javelin. By a big margin. Not only when pushing it, but I also go  faster in the 14, with less effort when paddling at slow  speeds. 
I’ve raced both, and on the Javelin I can easily outpace the same paddlers I fall behind on the 12’6. Then, on weekends I paddle a lot with my girlfriend who paddles a fast kayak. On those days I just paddle along with her for a couple  of hours. I always take the Allstar if I want to do any exercise. If I take the Javelin I have  to stop to wait for her all the time, or I have to paddle standing at the back  end of the  pad  to  slow  it down.
I know that in theory there shouldn’t  be any difference between the theory and  the  practice, but…

If you have the power and the technique to push a board up to or beyond the Froude number then the longer board will be faster. There are a lot of 155 pound or less women that rip on a 14'. I expect you have more upper body strength than a 155-pound woman. If you can reach or exceed the Froude number you should have at least a ten percent advantage on the 14' over a 12'6. That magic zone, below the Froude number for the 14 but above it for a 12'6 is where longer boards cruise.

Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

TallDude

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Re: Old article about why racing is declining so fast
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2018, 07:20:35 PM »
The surfboard class is one of the smallest classes in racing. I push for surfboard class at the races I attend, and often it's only me and one or two other people. Of course part of that is just that it's rarely advertised and often not even mentioned until close to the race date since I have to push for it. It's also kind of grim doing a distance race on a surfboard, but I've enjoyed it in the past--less so now that there isn't many fellow sufferers.


Maybe it's more popular on the east coast. I don't race a lot, but I entered surfboard class last race (in Connecticut) and there were close to twenty racers, counting men and women. I don't know why the difference, but it seems pretty popular out here.
I think part of that is the availability of race boards southern California vs. anywhere else. You can buy a race board used for cheaper than you can buy a new All Arounder. The race scene has definitely slowed here, but
we still have hundreds of people entering races. Mostly just less races, which needed to happen. It's back to the way it started, tagging along with the outrigger club races. Though the tag-a-longs (SUP's) still well outnumber the canoe's and ski's, the numbers are less than they were 5 years ago. I think the adjustment has happened and it appears to be stabilizing. Still tons of board in the harbor, and the rental scene is active.
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

PonoBill

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Re: Old article about why racing is declining so fast
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2018, 07:20:56 PM »
The surfboard class is one of the smallest classes in racing. I push for surfboard class at the races I attend, and often it's only me and one or two other people. Of course part of that is just that it's rarely advertised and often not even mentioned until close to the race date since I have to push for it. It's also kind of grim doing a distance race on a surfboard, but I've enjoyed it in the past--less so now that there isn't many fellow sufferers.


Maybe it's more popular on the east coast. I don't race a lot, but I entered surfboard class last race (in Connecticut) and there were close to twenty racers, counting men and women. I don't know why the difference, but it seems pretty popular out here.

That would be fun. Last race I entered the Surfboard class was last year's Gorge Paddle Challenge. Me and one other guy in the course race. just me in the downwind. No, not the over 70 surfboard--the entire class.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

PonoBill

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Re: Old article about why racing is declining so fast
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2018, 07:26:53 PM »
In Maui, the SUP participation slid so low that the Maui Paddling Hui--which changed its name from Maui Canoe and Kayak Club in part to include SUPs--eliminated SUPs from this year's races. Even downwinding, which was morphing into a SUP-dominant sport, has switched back to canoes and surfskis. Bizarre. The best SUP folks have switched to foils, but all the folks at my level have drifted off to canoes and skis or stopped doing it. Strange days.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

TallDude

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Re: Old article about why racing is declining so fast
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2018, 10:15:44 PM »
The best SUP folks have switched to foils, but all the folks at my level have drifted off to canoes and skis or stopped doing it. Strange days.
Ditto here. The top 6 man canoe Team California consists of pretty much 6 of the past top SUP racers. I do see new young competitive people (I don't know) out paddling on race boards, so it might be just my generation phasing out?
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

SaMoSUP

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Re: Old article about why racing is declining so fast
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2018, 11:53:27 PM »
Perhaps another angle on the decline of racing is not as much about boards but with the people.

The early SUP adopters started a new sport/race they could be winners at. They recruited the average joes/janes to join the party. Most of these people were on similar performance curves. It was all fun and games to race against your buddies.

Then more elite athletes showed up and blew the early adopters and average joes/janes away. Races were being catered mostly to the elites. The average joes/janes got discouraged and stopped participating.

The elite athletes soon realized there was no money to be made being elite. So they start dropping off too.

Might be a different story outside the US. Seems like the race scene in Europe has not reached a plateau.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 11:57:48 PM by SaMoSUP »

yugi

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Re: Old article about why racing is declining so fast
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2018, 04:02:02 AM »
^ yep. That’s how it goes in most new fun outdoor sports.

Looking at skateboarding, windsurfing, mountain biking, freestyle skiing and then free skiing there are always popular events all over the place by the early joiners to the sport. Then it evolves into a small elite who do races in places that are optimal for the sport.

Ever been to a PWA windsurfing event recently? It’s only 20 or 30 pro’s on a beach. Zero spectators.

Yes, In Europe SUP racing is getting bigger. I think a few of the big races will keep growing and become classics. The Paris SUP crossing “sells out” in 15 mins like big rock festvals do. The mid January “Gla Gla” Alpine SUP race, which started as a crazy mid-winter fun challenge is getting weirdly popular as well.


Gla Gla race
   http://www.supracer.com/2018-glagla-stand-up-paddleboarding-race-video/

   

Paris crossing
   http://www.supracer.com/2017-paris-crossing-biggest-race-in-the-world/

   



In continental europe fitness sports events are huge and also draw big “supporter” crowds.

Not just pro events like the Tour de France but big, gnarly sports challenges that are open for everyone. Like:

Roc d’Azuer. Mtn bike race in southern france. 20000 participants.
   https://www.rocazur.com/en/
   

Patrouille des Glaciers, ski mountaineering race. This is gruelling.
   Course is 53 km / 4000 m vert  (33 miles / 13 000 vert ft)
   Check out the kids section near the end! I can tell you there are more kids into SUP than ski alpinism.
   
   
Grand Raid, Mtn bike race across the Alps. 16’500 ft vert is sick!
   Course is 125 km / 5000 m vert  (77.5 miles / 16 500 vert ft)
   http://www.grand-raid-bcvs.ch/page-en-1-Course.html
   



Triathlons, marathons are booming too. Just huge amounts of participants. I think the SUP races that are big now will keep growing and join the ranks of those big sports events.


« Last Edit: May 05, 2018, 04:12:02 AM by yugi »

addapost

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Re: Old article about why racing is declining so fast
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2018, 04:16:53 AM »
It's not the length of the board. It's the engine. Always has been, always will be.

Except no, it's not. We race for two miles. You go on a nine foot surfboard, and I'll take my 18' speedboard. If I don't smoke you, you can have my board. my paddle, and my boardshorts. If I win I get your boardshorts and you walk home.

Deal?
That's a little extreme there Bill, I think you know that's not what I'm talking about. What I'm saying is, if racing follows your proposed lack of length restrictions, the small fast guys are still always going to beat the big heavy guys, ESPECIALLY if they can all show up on boards optimal for their size.
Bunch of old shit

yugi

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Re: Old article about why racing is declining so fast
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2018, 04:34:10 AM »
It's not the length of the board. It's the engine. Always has been, always will be.

Except no, it's not. We race for two miles. You go on a nine foot surfboard, and I'll take my 18' speedboard. If I don't smoke you, you can have my board. my paddle, and my boardshorts. If I win I get your boardshorts and you walk home.

Deal?

Yeah! Deal! We’re on. Every time we meet up.

And here’s why. I’ll always have my 9 ft board with me (or so easily find a local one) and you will practically never have your speedboard with you.

Which sum’s up that little practical flaw in your theory, and which is why racing didn’t go that way.

Admin

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Re: Old article about why racing is declining so fast
« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2018, 04:49:02 AM »
Flatwater racing is dead (OK, dying) because people tried it.

I started to type more but that is really all of it.

 


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