Production foilboards

[dpmaui]

Yessssirr Maasssa Bill, bottom got laminated today!! Alert the media, anchors away an all that crap, your barge is virtually done. NOT!!

[805StandUp]

Bill's and the other new Kalama boards are sweet and the small ones really do look like boogie board dimensions!

[southwesterly]

 Kirk McGinty's take on foil board contours.

[peterp]

Thanks for posting the pics of Kalama boards - friend of mine has one of Daves first boards and although the devil is in the detail it doesn't look too dis-similar to the new ones. The conundrum of wanting/needing to go short whilst still keeping us afloat really does not make for pretty boards.

What is the value of the steep step tail?

[PonoBill]

Yessssirr Maasssa Bill, bottom got laminated today!! Alert the media, anchors away an all that crap, your barge is virtually done. NOT!!

Hey, I didn't bug you even once today. Didn't come by and talk story or anything. I know where my butt is breaded.

[PonoBill]

What is the value of the steep step tail?

If you want to pump a board up off the water you need a quick reaction from the tail. You need to be able to press it down hard and lift the nose. Reducing the volume and creating a sharp pivot point helps that. If you have a lot of flat or rockered high volume tail behind the foil you can't pump the nose up at all. If you just move the foil back you don't have leverage and the board is less stable while flat on the water. Dave might have five more reasons for the tail, but that's what I see.

[peterp]

Makes sense with the step enhancing the pumping up. Jimmy Lewis does a 90deg step in tail - I'd imagine that aids release as well.

The question I have for myself is whether this will help me as I'm past the half century mark and I don't have the energy/power of the kids to pump up on foil and whether i'll be better served with a little more glide to get initial momentum and lift on foil?

In waves this is not that critical as the push of the wave will get you up relatively easily - but on a downwinds it's a completely different story - there is very little push in the swell so you either need a lot of wind or very good skill combined with strength to even have a hope of lifting up on foil. I'm trying to find the best solution for the downwinding conundrum and so far it seems only strong guys with high level of skill seem to have a chance.

[jondrums]

Kirk McGinty's take on foil board contours.

Noticeably lacking a tail relief for pumping. 

[surfcowboy]

L41 is getting started. Nothing wrong with that. I'll bet he's just working it out for himself instead of copying direct. Remember Dave's boards looked different just 3 months ago.

 It's been interesting to see how people iterate their designs over time. Note that Pono is saying that the Jimmy Lewis new boards are different. And then there's Charlie/SUPUK's progression. He's working on his own path as well that's changed over time. DW too has had his own, differing path. I'm stoked on all these guys. (Been watching Blaine's new Red Manta as well.)

I think the downwinder thing is going to be interesting. Kai is now paddling his 3'9" foil board into swells prone. Watch his vlogs on YouTube to see that.

Crazy sport coming together here.

[PonoBill]

Makes sense with the step enhancing the pumping up. Jimmy Lewis does a 90deg step in tail - I'd imagine that aids release as well.

The question I have for myself is whether this will help me as I'm past the half century mark and I don't have the energy/power of the kids to pump up on foil and whether i'll be better served with a little more glide to get initial momentum and lift on foil?

In waves this is not that critical as the push of the wave will get you up relatively easily - but on a downwinds it's a completely different story - there is very little push in the swell so you either need a lot of wind or very good skill combined with strength to even have a hope of lifting up on foil. I'm trying to find the best solution for the downwinding conundrum and so far it seems only strong guys with high level of skill seem to have a chance.

A. I'm 71. Harden the fuck up. Seriously though, glide doesn't help. I've been watching downwind foilers carefully. They aren't getting up to some speed (dragging a foil along) and then rising majestically into the air. They take a couple of frantic strokes on the face of a swell and pump into the air so their drag drops to nothing. Once they're up, they rocket along, connecting bumps. There's a video of Dave K and his kid Austen on facebook now of them downwinding at Wrightsville beach. Looks like a no-winder to me. Disregard Austen and watch Dave. He's over 50 too. Of course, he's a freak, but he's over fifty and over 200 pounds.
B. I'll let you know how it goes this summer, I plan to be downwind foiling in Hood River,
C. Most of the people I know that foil downwind are 50+.
D. Nobody, as in absolutely nobody, is using bigger boards to downwind foil. Some folks tried them, thinking the same way you are. Didn't work well. That long board waving around is just an impediment. You can't stay up and fly, so you are back in the water, trying to get up again. That's the most exhausting part. Certainly try that if you like, but I think you're going to pay some painful dues.

[peterp]

Makes sense with the step enhancing the pumping up. Jimmy Lewis does a 90deg step in tail - I'd imagine that aids release as well.

The question I have for myself is whether this will help me as I'm past the half century mark and I don't have the energy/power of the kids to pump up on foil and whether i'll be better served with a little more glide to get initial momentum and lift on foil?

In waves this is not that critical as the push of the wave will get you up relatively easily - but on a downwinds it's a completely different story - there is very little push in the swell so you either need a lot of wind or very good skill combined with strength to even have a hope of lifting up on foil. I'm trying to find the best solution for the downwinding conundrum and so far it seems only strong guys with high level of skill seem to have a chance.

A. I'm 71. Harden the fuck up. Seriously though, glide doesn't help. I've been watching downwind foilers carefully. They aren't getting up to some speed (dragging a foil along) and then rising majestically into the air. They take a couple of frantic strokes on the face of a swell and pump into the air so their drag drops to nothing. Once they're up, they rocket along, connecting bumps. There's a video of Dave K and his kid Austen on facebook now of them downwinding at Wrightsville beach. Looks like a no-winder to me. Disregard Austen and watch Dave. He's over 50 too. Of course, he's a freak, but he's over fifty and over 200 pounds.
B. I'll let you know how it goes this summer, I plan to be downwind foiling in Hood River,
C. Most of the people I know that foil downwind are 50+.
D. Nobody, as in absolutely nobody, is using bigger boards to downwind foil. Some folks tried them, thinking the same way you are. Didn't work well. That long board waving around is just an impediment. You can't stay up and fly, so you are back in the water, trying to get up again. That's the most exhausting part. Certainly try that if you like, but I think you're going to pay some painful dues.

Firstly, I agree with everything you say - especially the HTFU bit...Secondly, please do try and it and then report back your experience...I think you will be dumbfounded by how hard it is.

Watching Dave or anyone is in the +50 category coming out of Maui is not a real representation of what goes on in the real world. A few years ago I was a pretty competent downwind paddler back home and when I went and did the Maui runs I'd get beaten by chicks older than me (one of them now rides a 5'6 foil board I believe).

When I say longer board I mean 7'10 for me - I learned on my old 8'10 Hokua and then built a 7'10 x 27" with similar volume and the 7'10 has a fraction better glide and release. I've probably done 60-70km's of downwind in 20-35knots and anything under 30knots I cannot get on foil more than a couple of times as it completely drains me to get up. Granted, my foils have been too small (I think) as I'm using same size as guys weighing 70-80kg where I'm 92kg (we don't have bigger foils yet) but I can get up occasionally and if I had a fraction more glide I'd be getting up a lot easier.

But maybe you are right - if the secret is not in the glide - it's most probably in the pump up technique which takes some time to learn and is very taxing - in which case I'm probably screwed.

[Dwight (DW)]

What is the value of the steep step tail?

Dave might have five more reasons for the tail, but that's what I see.

Reason number 2) it lets you use a flat rocker at the foil and through the middle, while the tail chop makes it push off from the wave like it has rocker. This flatness keeps the foil AOA perfect, so you paddle super fast and effortless.

[madeinsantacruz]

I'm on the fence in regard to the chopped tail rocker.  I see it as robbing you of volume where you really want it and I'm not (nor are most guys) pumping so hard that tail touchdowns are a problem.  I feel beveled rails make much more sense from a usability standpoint.   

MISC

[opie]

I'm on the fence in regard to the chopped tail rocker.  I see it as robbing you of volume where you really want it and I'm not (nor are most guys) pumping so hard that tail touchdowns are a problem.  I feel beveled rails make much more sense from a usability standpoint.   

MISC

I thought the chopped tail was designed to help with the initial hop up onto the foil, which should help catch waves more easily.  If true this could be worth giving up some stability. 
I am also not having a problem with tail  touchdowns once I am up.

[madeinsantacruz]

Maybe some validity to that but I don't have any trouble kicking the board up on foil without the chopped tail rocker.