Author Topic: I need to put a foil box into a board, how do I do it?  (Read 8628 times)

eDUBz

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Re: I need to put a foil box into a board, how do I do it?
« Reply #120 on: May 15, 2018, 09:25:27 PM »
You will be fine at 10inHG

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sharksupper

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Re: I need to put a foil box into a board, how do I do it?
« Reply #121 on: May 15, 2018, 10:03:53 PM »
Excellent timing, I just stuck it in the bag at 7inHG, so upped it to 10... I did notice that more extra epoxy was coming out from under the Mylar after that too.

What I did was mask off the area to be glassed and sanded each layer I was putting in separately, each one masked off, so kind of a stepping surface to match the plys.  Then cut out a Mylar (14mil) to the exact shape of the patch and then did my layup on the Mylar in reverse order, from top layer to bottom... 1.4oz glass, 5.7oz carbon spread tow, 5.8oz carbon twill x 3.. each reducing in size as they went.  I wetted out the board and the whole laminate well and then vacuum bagged it on.  With any luck, when it's done all I have to do is pull up the Mylar and the outlined tape and maybe knock down a slight tape thickness edge around the sides with a blade/scraper.  Hopefully it comes out nice and pre-finished!  :)

sharksupper

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Re: I need to put a foil box into a board, how do I do it?
« Reply #122 on: May 15, 2018, 10:11:34 PM »
I'm only making this side nice as practice for when I do the bottom.  Obviously the top is getting covered up with a pad and so pointless to make nice.

Shoot, I noticed from my pictures in the post that I didn't put a breather cloth over the vent plug hole so the inner board can equalize.  Just went back and quickly did that!  I guess the risk of not doing that would be having air from inside the board trying to get out... like through a pinhole under my laminate!  Fixed that!
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 10:47:12 PM by sharksupper »

sharksupper

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Re: I need to put a foil box into a board, how do I do it?
« Reply #123 on: May 16, 2018, 08:50:11 AM »
Ok, so lessons learned on the practice side...   

10inHG was a little too much vacuum.  The board did compress around the cassette and make a slight bump around it like I was wanting to avoid.  Nothing huge but visible from a side view.  I think 5-7inHG max next time.

Don't leave the vacuum feed in the middle of the laminate when bagging, duh!  It left a dimple in my layup, again, no biggie, just visual  Just me being lazy and not moving it

Don't over squeegee the laminate, even with the Mylar over it.  I was squeegeeing like crazy to try and get out excess epoxy (I felt like not enough was coming out, in reality the layup wasn't that epoxy rich).  What I did, which I know better from past experience, is introduce tiny air bubbles between the glass and carbon.  Just a visual thing really, the surface is still sealed fine.  I also sealed my sanded area with cabosil thickened epoxy and let it tack up before doing my layup, so pinhole chance is very low despite how it might look.  Even after putting in the cassette the surface was already sealed, so really I have double countermeasures for pinhole possibility.

That's about it, everything else came out great.  The edge was just how I expected, a slight lip I hit with the edge of a single edge razorblade and it was basically flush without looking bad.

I'll be applying what I learned to the bottom layup, which will be visible.

sharksupper

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Re: I need to put a foil box into a board, how do I do it?
« Reply #124 on: May 16, 2018, 09:49:07 AM »
Boy, the more I sit here and think about this, I'm not sure this is going to be the best way to do things.

For one, I should not be bagging the whole board, I should have gotten sealing tape and just vacuumed the surface if I wanted to vacuum bag.  That would avoid the whole board compressing bit and I could use as much vacuum as I wanted then too.

Second, the bottom side is going to have the two fin boxes.  That obviously isn't going to work well with the vacuum bagging scenario.  It will want to suck everything down into the boxes.  I'd have to cover the boxes with something like a wood insert and then risk that getting glued into the boxes.

The other option, which was actually my original plan, was to use the Mylar how I did, but put a big piece of foam rubber over the whole thing and weight it down massively, ie poor mans vacuum bag.

There's always the option of going no vacuum or Mylar and doing a hot coat as finish.  I just don't want to sand/finish anything, but still want a nice even smooth/gloss finish.

Going to have to think about this one for a while....

Beasho

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Re: I need to put a foil box into a board, how do I do it?
« Reply #125 on: May 16, 2018, 11:37:09 AM »
Supper: You are clearly a perfectionist.  I can't come close to your ability with Epoxy, bagging and beauty.  eDubz may only be qualified to comment.

However you started this thread on April 14th.  20 days later my Tuttle box blew out. 5 days later I fixed it and have surf 85+ waves over 6 sessions including the best and longest Foil wave of my life from the 3rd peak at Mavericks on a 10+ foot screamer 600+ yards through the rocks to the inner lagoon.  It is now a month later.

I worked for Tom Siebel who loved to say "We have a bias for action.  The perfect idea that takes too long is worthless compared to an 80% baked idea that is implemented immediately."  Granted this is a harsh perspective from an angry but successful business leader.

The first time my Tuttle box blew out I concluded that Box Failure will become a regular occurrence and it has.  I had 2 professional installations.  The first one cracked, I fixed it, then a 10 foot wave blew it out.  I fixed it and surfed it for 500+ waves.  This second box just melted away after 7 sessions.  I fixed it.

If you are making the board beautiful for artistic purposes or for resale that is one thing.  Otherwise the sport is moving so fast that this setup is already obsolete.  Work quickly.  Your work will hold.  Laminate the bottom and start flying.

With Love - Beasho  ;D
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 11:41:49 AM by Beasho »

sharksupper

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Re: I need to put a foil box into a board, how do I do it?
« Reply #126 on: May 16, 2018, 12:59:41 PM »
LOL, oh man, you're so right!  I can get to finicky about doing things just perfect sometimes.  I guess part of it is my last two failures were so huge, first I broke my foil, then I lost another out outright!  I'm feeling a little gun shy about throwing something together without really knowing what I'm doing.  Well, on the bright side, it's almost over, you won't have to suffer through it for much longer  ;)

Thanks for the reality check beasho, I needed that perspective.   8)

eDUBz

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Re: I need to put a foil box into a board, how do I do it?
« Reply #127 on: May 16, 2018, 01:30:58 PM »
I never bagged a full board for tuttle box or tracks. I would imagine by removing the Vent plug the vacuum was pulling air from inside the board. Tacky tape and seal around the box only in the bottom.
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SanoSlatchSup

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Re: I need to put a foil box into a board, how do I do it?
« Reply #128 on: May 16, 2018, 09:49:56 PM »
If you are making the board beautiful for artistic purposes or for resale that is one thing.  Otherwise the sport is moving so fast that this setup is already obsolete.  Work quickly.  Your work will hold.  Laminate the bottom and start flying.
Reminds me of:

Quote
Confucius: "Better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without."
:)
Me: 6'1"/200...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...9'6" Costa Azul Wide Body...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm for when proning urges still hit, and now a 7'3" Chuck Glynn foil board.

808sup

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Re: I need to put a foil box into a board, how do I do it?
« Reply #129 on: May 16, 2018, 10:43:07 PM »
Iím guilty of the same shark supper. Sometimes my projects never even get started because I want perfection and second guess myself etc. So maybe you should just knock it out and enjoy a martini like beasho did and get back on the water.

sharksupper

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DONE!
« Reply #130 on: May 20, 2018, 11:13:25 PM »
Finally over, had to wait for some supplies to finish, now it's done. 

I vacuum bagged the single surface method for the second side.  I thought this would be the better way to vacuum bag.  In some ways it was much better, but it really was wasn't in other big ways.  I'd bag the whole board at a lower vacuum pressure had I to do it again.  One tiny pin hole using the single surface way can kill the whole layup by introducing air into the layup.  With a whole bag the vacuum is equalized on both sides of the layup, so pin holes don't matter as much.  Hope that  helps someone in the future.

I'm going foiling...   8)

Over and out.

If I'm feeling brave and have the time I'll try building a custom foil board this summer.

SanoSlatchSup

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Re: I need to put a foil box into a board, how do I do it?
« Reply #131 on: May 21, 2018, 10:23:58 AM »
Congrats sharksupper, and thank you for taking us on the journey with you, I learned a lot...mostly that I don't have the skill, patience, or proper equipment (nor space) to take on such a project. But you did an outstanding job, and your craftsmanship shines through with your completed work on the mast track inserts, and the beautiful Tuttle adaptor you're going to be installing on them.

Well done sir, well done. My hat's off to you.
Me: 6'1"/200...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...9'6" Costa Azul Wide Body...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm for when proning urges still hit, and now a 7'3" Chuck Glynn foil board.

PonoBill

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Re: I need to put a foil box into a board, how do I do it?
« Reply #132 on: May 21, 2018, 09:12:49 PM »
It looks like Dub is using a single surface "bag" with that ten pounds. I don't think I'd take a full bag that far. Too easy to distort the board. It's true that you can't do a single sided bag on a leaky surface. I generally test everything before I go live with epoxy. It sometimes wastes sealant and bag material, but it's better than watching bubbles push through your glass job. And a leaky single-sided job can crush a board if you forget to pull the vent plug.
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sharksupper

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Re: I need to put a foil box into a board, how do I do it?
« Reply #133 on: May 22, 2018, 09:49:36 AM »
Spot on Bill.  10inHG was too much, as you said, distorted the board a bit.  Wasn't terrible, and pretty much all of it relaxed during a two day post cure, but I'd stick to 5-7inHG max next time.

When I did the single surface method I got a few small air voids in places, which I poked holes on either side of and forced epoxy through.  The funny thing was the vacuum pump was not cycling and no air was coming out from the laminate, so a bit perplexing.  Anyway, that was only with my top, mostly for visuals, layer, the main base laminates were solid.

Very interesting learning as I go along, thanks everyone for all the tips and advice.  Not just the technical board stuff but the life stuff too   ;D