I need to put a foil box into a board, how do I do it?

[eDUBz]

You went all the way through with the PVC Block?!

[eDUBz]

I did one carbon 5.7oz Carbon patch - and 2 6oz glass with relief cuts as you mentioned.

[eDUBz]

I like to cover a large area as the final layer - this board I did 3/4 layers of 4 oz with unidirectional Carbon center and the cover entire in 6 oz

[sharksupper]

You went all the way through with the PVC Block?!

Oops!  I thought that was the idea?  Is that not right?  Did seem kind of heavy, whole cassette was about 2lbs.  Should be strong, yea?

How do you keep the epoxy out of your tracks when you glass over them? 

[eDUBz]

It’s not wrong just more work - I never did the cassette that way just the tuttle boxes. You can tape the mast track off and glass right over. Razor it out right before the epoxy hardens.

[Beasho]

I don't know what to say, the Gorilla Glue seems to have great bonding strength when there is no gap, but leaving a gap allowing it to foam up between seems to be much weaker.  This test was done with very dense XPS, so on EPS it's probably not going to fail first, but still interesting to learn this glues properties, what it's good at and what it's not as good at.

I thought I had covered this issue in my video but I didn't show the results of cutting open the Cup-o-Gorilla-Glue.

When you whip in the water the density becomes MUCH, MUCH more consistent.  The Gorilla glue cures with moisture.  In a dry environment the glue will foam up, with internally generated gas, until it finds moisture.  Then it will form a hardened layer.  If you test it you will see the external foam layer is way stiffer and more dense where it 'found' moisture in the air.  When you mix in the water, and whip the Gorilla Glue until it turns white you get a very consistent, bubble free internal foam structure.  This is key to getting the best density and mechanical strength from the Glue.

To be fair an Epoxy install can work but it takes a good to great craftsman to pull it off.  The Gorilla glue leaves far less of a chance for the installer to screw it up.  This is coming from my experience with a "Professionally" installed box that failed in 7 days in a brand new board. The failed box was installed poorly with Epoxy.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgZ3A3igBbY

[sharksupper]

Wow, that is a nice outcome Beasho!  Much more consistent than how mine came out.  I guess that's the difference then, you have to really whip it up with water, and not just with a stick, but with a machine.  I guess then that does limit it's use to the 10-15min period before it kicks off, since the water is in it already.  I tested the way I did (no pre-mixed water) because that's how I was going to do it on my board.  I wanted the extra time to smear it on all the surfaces (lots of surface area with a track box!), and have plenty of time for alignment.  Mind you, this is my first time putting in a box, so I'm stupid slow at everything.  The water mixed in ahead of time would not have given me the time I needed to get the alignment right.  The way it was I barely was able to get everything right with the epoxy at over an hour.  I really struggled, it was the most stressful part so far!  I wasn't even sure it came out straight, as it's not as easy as sticking a tuttle fin in the box, mine is a track.  This morning, now that the epoxy is cured, I checked the alignment and I'm happy to say it's spot on!  Super stoked!  The strength already, without the glassing top/bottom is amazing, no flex at all.

The one downside I've learned (which I knew about ahead of time but didn't think it would be so huge) with putting in a track box vs tuttle is that you can't angle the box forward like with the tuttle box so the foil's fuselage is parallel to the top of the board.  I'm going to have to create a ~1/4" wedge shim so the foil will be angled right.  Kind of a bummer, but should work.  Had I thought about this more ahead of time I could have built that angle into my tuttle to track box adapter, oh well!  I kind of missed this because I was used to the Lift foil, which had the angle built into it already.  I haven't ridden the GoFoil yet, so I wasn't as aware that it's not pre-angled for you.

[sharksupper]

Deck side cassette is sanded down.  I was going to glass this side first, then if I mess up it's under the pad!   

I think I'm going with 3 layers of 6oz carbon.  First one starting out 1" larger than the cassette, and moving out an inch in all directions on each next layer.  Then one final light fiberglass layer, so I don't have to sand the carbon, and to help with any pinholes.

On the bottom I guess I'll do something similar depending on how the top comes out.

Nearing the end here!

[Beasho]

You'll see pictures of big carbon patches on the bottom of the boards but I am realizing this is backwards.

The majority of the Stress is VERTICAL like a column punching Upward into the Deck.  'If' your box is secured to the foam then the bulk of stress should be dissipated or managed by the carbon on the TOP deck, NOT the bottom.

Take a look at my failure and Sam Pae's failed Tuttle boxes.  The box just pushed through the upper deck.  A static diagram will show the force is applied slightly forward of the mast which is also why my box punched upward on the front bolt and bent forward pulling down and through the deck with the rear bolt. 

PS: Sam fixed his box with Gorilla Glue (not that it matters now)

His fix here:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10211306341677472&set=pcb.10211306387798625&type=3&theater

[sharksupper]

Wow!  That is great info, thanks!  I will add one layer of carbon to the top deck and take one out of the bottom.

[sharksupper]

My layout is going to look something like this... the outlines would be the edges of each layer of carbon/glass.  I will likely cut the corners off though and make more of a diamond shape to avoid making a stress point

[eDUBz]

Roger that Beasho!

Always reinforce the deck. Carbon / Glass patch

[sharksupper]

I'm about to vacuum bag on my top laminates on, what's the max safe vacuum for an all fiberglass/wood sandwich board with an EPS core?  I was thinking around 5-10 inHg?  I don't want to crush the thing!  And YES vent plug is removed!   

I'm a bit leery because the PVC block is much less compressible than the EPS... so I don't want the EPS to shrink and pull away from the PVC part!

[PonoBill]

Are you using a full bag around the entire board or just sealing bag material to the deck? If you do the latter there is no chance of squashing the board.

[sharksupper]

Full bag, it's like a zip lock type so no choice.  I've dialed in ~7 inHG but I haven't started yet.