Author Topic: 2016 Infinity Blackfish 14 x 27  (Read 50422 times)

Rideordie

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Re: 2016 Infinity Blackfish 14 x 27
« Reply #285 on: March 28, 2018, 07:25:31 PM »
Luc, that may be the wisest comment on this whole thread. I am not giving up yet, but I may end up agreeing with you before I am done.
Infinity Blackfish Custom 14 x 26.75 (4 fins)
Naish Glide 14 (v2)
SIC X-14 SCC  
KeNalu Konihi 95 xTuf(s)
KeNalu Mana 90 100 Flex

Luc Benac

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Re: 2016 Infinity Blackfish 14 x 27
« Reply #286 on: March 28, 2018, 07:52:57 PM »
Luc, that may be the wisest comment on this whole thread. I am not giving up yet, but I may end up agreeing with you before I am done.
I am the crappiest paddler so I somehow try to compensate :-)
Naish Maliko 14' x 26" 273L
Sunova Torpedo 14'x27" 286L
Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L
Sunova Steeze 10' x 31" 150L
 *Salish 460 & 500, Andaman 500, Viento 520

burchas

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Re: 2016 Infinity Blackfish 14 x 27
« Reply #287 on: March 28, 2018, 08:00:32 PM »
To keep the engine running over 50 strokes per minute over long distance I dropped the paddle size and weight considerably.
That's why I have the ZRE 75sqi with under 11oz, really helps in maintaining high stroke rate.
in progress...

Luc Benac

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Re: 2016 Infinity Blackfish 14 x 27
« Reply #288 on: March 28, 2018, 08:14:26 PM »
To keep the engine running over 50 strokes per minute over long distance I dropped the paddle size and weight considerably.
That's why I have the ZRE 75sqi with under 11oz, really helps in maintaining high stroke rate.

Yes as long as you can also maintain the distance per stroke....therefore lays the problem.....
Naish Maliko 14' x 26" 273L
Sunova Torpedo 14'x27" 286L
Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L
Sunova Steeze 10' x 31" 150L
 *Salish 460 & 500, Andaman 500, Viento 520

burchas

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Re: 2016 Infinity Blackfish 14 x 27
« Reply #289 on: March 28, 2018, 09:31:20 PM »
To keep the engine running over 50 strokes per minute over long distance I dropped the paddle size and weight considerably.
That's why I have the ZRE 75sqi with under 11oz, really helps in maintaining high stroke rate.

Yes as long as you can also maintain the distance per stroke....therefore lays the problem.....

Indeed! That's where the small blade/high stroke rate shines for me.

Up to 6-8 miles I can use my 85sqi at 46-7spm with 10ft per stroke at best. Beyond that efficiency goes down
and so is the distance per stroke (to 9 and 8ft on long distance).

With the 75 I can maintain 8ft throughout at 52-55spm, even for 20+ miles.

As  you said it, we're trying to find ways to compensate for our weaknesses :)

in progress...

Area 10

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Re: 2016 Infinity Blackfish 14 x 27
« Reply #290 on: March 28, 2018, 10:02:57 PM »
Interesting. I was counting the stroke rates of some of the top guys in an ocean flat water distance race recently. Even though they were seemingly stroking quite hard and deep, their stroke rate was around 60 spm. And they seemed to be using blades in the 85-95 sq in range, mostly.

So, I guess that is why they are so fast, then. Their stroke rate actually *looked* much slower - very unhurried - so I was quite taken aback when I actually counted it. At 60spm I look like Iím being chased by a shark.

burchas

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Re: 2016 Infinity Blackfish 14 x 27
« Reply #291 on: March 28, 2018, 10:28:46 PM »
Interesting. I was counting the stroke rates of some of the top guys in an ocean flat water distance race recently. Even though they were seemingly stroking quite hard and deep, their stroke rate was around 60 spm. And they seemed to be using blades in the 85-95 sq in range, mostly.

So, I guess that is why they are so fast, then. Their stroke rate actually *looked* much slower - very unhurried - so I was quite taken aback when I actually counted it. At 60spm I look like Iím being chased by a shark.

I noticed the same thing and then tried to replicate it my self...
Almost busted a nut, not even a quarter of a mile. Helps one
Put things in perspective but still able to take away some.

With the mess Iíll make at 60spm Iíll be the one chasing off the shark ;D
in progress...

Area 10

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Re: 2016 Infinity Blackfish 14 x 27
« Reply #292 on: March 29, 2018, 12:29:19 AM »
Thatís funny! :)

Yeah, i hadnít really realised the enormity of how different these paddlers are from the average Joe until I fully factored their stroke rate into the equation. It is possible to do a rough facsimile of their stroke, and use the same paddle. But try to do both those things at the same time as maintaining their stroke rate and most people will spontaneously combust. Not considering stroke rate is a great way to fool yourself that you are a decent paddler. And it the ease with which they do it: they make it look effortless and natural, like they have all the time in the world. Itís actually very hard to see where they are gaining their stroke rate speed over an average paddler. Of course this ďlooks like they are going slow but actually they are going really fastĒ is probably one of the signatures of top athletes in many fields of sport. That doesnít make it any less extraordinary though. I suspect that like everything else when it comes to absolute excellence, it takes genetic freakery combined with freakish amounts of practice. Although...Jade Howson isnít old enough to have put in thousands of hours of practice and yet she can go faster than I ever will. So, there are still some things that remain a mystery to me, although I guess that the best people are also the fastest learners, and maybe that learning capacity is part of the genetic freakery also.

Eagle

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Re: 2016 Infinity Blackfish 14 x 27
« Reply #293 on: March 29, 2018, 02:07:30 PM »
Thanks Eagle.  I completed some pretty extensive testing of various fin combinations earlier in this thread.  Top and average sprint speed have been really good for me.  Even single mile runs were good.  The issue that I am having is average speed over longer (6 miles) runs.  I expect that some of this is the nature of the planing hull.
Yeah good.  Know for us it is very difficult to get similar ocean conditions to compare over 5-6 miles from day to day.  That is our typical distance triangle loop we paddle.  Used to track numbers years ago with a spreadsheet analyzing this and that.  Did actually provide some useful data for comparative purposes.  But found it was a never ending quest to go faster every time out. 

Now that is not much concern.  We just go out and maximize the fun quotient for SUP without checking times so much.  Just a cursory glance now.  Haha!  For me -> waves for DW riding balancing on my AS is more important to me.  Interestingly my SUP balance and relaxation have helped tremendously for skiing -> and especially riding a snowboard this year.  Probs ski and SB better now than ever before because of SUP.

But would have thought the X-14 you have should go very fast on flat compared to the Blackfish.  Whereas the BF should do better in chop and slop.  From my data -> times on my SB Touring were faster than my Dom once wind speeds exceeded about 6 kts.  Anything less the Dom would be faster.
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

Area 10

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Re: 2016 Infinity Blackfish 14 x 27
« Reply #294 on: April 02, 2018, 04:31:41 PM »
I tried a 14 x 25 Blackfish in messy waters and about 15 knots onshore. Then I went and bought a SIC RS 14 x 26 :) (I was quite tempted to buy a 2018 Naish Maliko too - I liked that to paddle too.)

But my conditions are probably not what the Blackfish was designed for. I kinda have an image of Candice Appleby paddling Californian light wind ocean when I think of the Blackfish. Upwind and cross-wind in messed-up rippy short period slop, and paddling in and out of the waves, it wasnít as good as I was expecting, frankly. Thatís a big nose to push upwind, and to get pushed about. And thereís a bit of rolliness from the nose shape despite the wide tail. I did like the construction though - seemed very stiff and well-made and was nice and light.

The Blackfish I tried didnít have the full set of fins in, just one centre fin. It didnít feel underfinned to me though.

JEG

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Re: 2016 Infinity Blackfish 14 x 27
« Reply #295 on: April 04, 2018, 03:34:25 PM »
What I like about the BF are the looks, light, construction and quality but I feel the same way as you Area 10.
I did two events last year in two different places (lakes to bay and open ocean marathon) and was surprised of the BF performance and I expected something better.
Some boards behave better than others in different conditions.

Eagle

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Re: 2016 Infinity Blackfish 14 x 27
« Reply #296 on: April 04, 2018, 06:11:20 PM »
The Whiplash looks like it should have pretty good efficiency vs the BF.  The nose interestingly is similar to the SB Touring Pin with a reverse bow flat on the bottom and peaked on top.  Whereas the Blackfish more designed to ride over chop and slop.  It is pretty hard to keep pace and speed on flat with the BF -> especially in wider versions.  But both design approaches work.  Just depends what you want to prioritize.

https://youtu.be/SXJ5PQAK1j8
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

Rideordie

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Re: 2016 Infinity Blackfish 14 x 27
« Reply #297 on: April 05, 2018, 08:51:39 PM »
Ok, so I switched back to the black inserts and used my LA Stinger at the back of the box, (small) blackfish twins and small ventral (mid-box) and had it out for a couple of windy 12-15 mph day 4-5 mile runs.   Difficult to determine where to stand to trim, but something changed for sure.  Less nose dominant, step back some to compensate.  Hard to tell, but it felt a little draggy still.  Feels a bit over finned.  Downwind speed only about 4.8, but it was a little choppy.  Upwind felt slower than it should be.     

So, then decided to make some changes for the next run.  I replaced the stinger with a shorter (5.5 inch) (Thresher? Not sure if that is the name.) fin which has about 40% less surface area than the Stinger.  Also moved the ventral to the back of the box.  Had a very nice day.  Wind was 1-6 mph and almost dead flat.  Unfortunately, my Garmin and Speed Coach both need a recharge, so no data. 

Very good news though!!  I completed a 6 mile run with no rest.  Upwind both ways as the wind shifted. The board was "very happy" with me standing with my toes roughly on the balance point.  The board trimmed just right with water spraying around the first stripe and felt very well balanced.  Zero nose dominance and glide seems very good. Tracking was not quite as good as with the Stinger, but it was still very good.  The tail felt felt more loose and light. And as fast as it "should be".  I would say that projection has improved significantly.  The ease of the 6 mile effort tells me that the ventral placement change was a big success. 

I am a Happy Camper now  8), but I still plan to put the Garmin on it to validate my experience.  I am also still curious if there is more performance to be had.  Will also try the Stinger again with the front ventral moved to the back of the box to be sure.  Might still want to try the ellipticals, as Luc and Burchas recommend.                       
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 08:56:03 PM by Rideordie »
Infinity Blackfish Custom 14 x 26.75 (4 fins)
Naish Glide 14 (v2)
SIC X-14 SCC  
KeNalu Konihi 95 xTuf(s)
KeNalu Mana 90 100 Flex

Rideordie

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Re: 2016 Infinity Blackfish 14 x 27
« Reply #298 on: April 07, 2018, 10:59:18 AM »
One other thing that I noticed was that with the new ventral box position there is Much less tendency for the tail to kick out, which allows me to run the smaller fin more effectively. So, I am now thinking about trying the second ventral as the kick fin again. In fact, I just swapped it out to get ready for my next paddle. 
Infinity Blackfish Custom 14 x 26.75 (4 fins)
Naish Glide 14 (v2)
SIC X-14 SCC  
KeNalu Konihi 95 xTuf(s)
KeNalu Mana 90 100 Flex

 


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