Author Topic: How to build a deep tuttle to plate adater?  (Read 13966 times)

sharksupper

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 350
    • View Profile
    • Email
How to build a deep tuttle to plate adater?
« on: March 31, 2018, 11:29:01 AM »
Hey guys, was super stoked to get my GoFoil set yesterday, but then the bad news, everyone is out of deep tuttle to plate adapters for a very long time!  The queue is nearly a hundred deep on the waiting list too!  Insane.  I'm left to have to make my own at this point if I want to go foiling anytime soon, good motivation!   :)

I have all the composite materials needed and have made some moulds in the past for different things, so I have release wax, PVA, etc and some experience with making splitter plates and going that route.

What I'm totally unsure of is how to build this thing.  I'm looking for ideas here...

I see two level with this thing.  One, seal up a tuttle male part and build up a mass around it and then hand shape and finish to make a one off part.  or Two, take it a step further and make a mould out of the one off and build these as I wish.  Either way I have to make the first one., but if I use it as just a plug I can make it using anything I want, even wood.  That might be easier to design it.  Dammit, I knew I should have gotten into 3d printing!  ;)

So what do you think?  How should a deep tuttle to plate adapter be designed?

I thought of a few key areas to pay attention to so far:
-The wall thickness around the tuttle box part needs to be sufficiently strong enough to keep forces from splitting open at the corners. 
-The thickness of the plate mount part needs to be strong enough to keep it from breaking around the plate mount bolt holes.
-The fillet between the tuttle box part and plate mount part also needs to be big/strong enough to keep the tuttle box part from separating from the plate mount part.

One tricky area is going to be how to deal with the tuttle box bolts going through the adapter.  I suppose I could just build it all solid and then drill out the holes and plunge route out a channel for the bolts to fasten down inside of the unit... so the plate mount is still flush with the board.  I guess that leaves the question, how much distance should be left between the top of the tuttle male part and the board mating surface of the plate mount part?  I guess it would be the bolt head thickness plus enough thickness to keep the bolt from pulling through to the tuttle cavity.

I'm going to go throw some materials around and see what I come up with.


PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25864
    • View Profile
Re: How to build a deep tuttle to plate adater?
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2018, 12:34:34 PM »
It would be pretty easy to take a Chinook deep Tuttle box for 25 bux and add a plate to it. I'd make the plate out of a half-dozen layers of carbon on a sheet of glass with mold release then glue the Tuttle box to it. Make a good-sized fillet all around with chopped carbon and epoxy, then build out the sides and end of the box with carbon lapping to the top of the box and edge of the plate.

Or just take that same deep Tuttle box and install it in your board between the mast tracks that make up your plate mount. Probably a one day job either way.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

sharksupper

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 350
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: How to build a deep tuttle to plate adater?
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2018, 01:02:49 PM »
Bill you're a genius!  A shop has a Larry Tuttle Deep Tuttle box just an hour from me, going to get it!  Thanks! 

You think the Larry Tuttle box vs the Chinook are too different?


PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25864
    • View Profile
Re: How to build a deep tuttle to plate adater?
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2018, 02:27:18 PM »
I'm not familiar with the Larry Tuttle box. Chinook boxes are plenty strong but I'd build up the carbon or glass around them quite thickly. I've seen an adaptor Alex made and it's chunky. He did his more like what you described but he already has an aluminum plug mold for making Tuttle boxes. I'd go at least 1/4" thick and maybe more like 3/8" for the finished added thickness, including the lapped joiner layers. Most boxes have vertical grooves to aid adhesion and you want to take advantage of these by squeezing wet carbon against the box. Maybe wrap a couple of layers onto the box and bag it before you glue it to the plate. If you wrap a continuous length of fiber twice around the box it will be ridiculously strong.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

sharksupper

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 350
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: How to build a deep tuttle to plate adater?
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2018, 03:23:22 PM »
Ok, so they didn't have Chinook boxes, I guess everyone is out of those too.  They did have some other cheaper funky ones, so I just picked one up maybe just to use to build a nice tuttle plug.  This box has plywood in it, and the sides are crazy thin.  I can't believe someone would expect this box to take any kind of hit at all.

From my plug I make from this box I'll build up a much stronger carbon box, adding some 50k high modulus carbon roving wrapped around the box for crazy strength.  Then I'll add the base plate how you described with continuous pieces of carbon joining the two, maybe even some of that roving between them.

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25864
    • View Profile
Re: How to build a deep tuttle to plate adater?
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2018, 03:55:37 PM »
That's actually a good box for installation, highly regarded by some folks. The PVC wrap would make for a good installation. But it's lousy for making an adapter. By the time you get the plug done, you could probably get a chinook Tuttle. Oh, damn, it's Saturday. You could call them on Monday but you lose two days. Nevermind.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

sharksupper

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 350
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: How to build a deep tuttle to plate adater?
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2018, 12:10:25 AM »
Plug/mould done.  Got a little epoxy shrinkage because of the thermals, so will have to make up 0.3mm in the final layup with PVA or maybe just wax because I think maybe the 360deg contact surface might be difficult to punch out with PVA between the part and mould/plug.

jrandy

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 489
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: How to build a deep tuttle to plate adater?
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2018, 04:04:45 AM »
Nice. To be clear, the new foil mast is deep Tuttle and the intended board is plate system only?

http://pushheretosavealife.com/
Be safe, have fun. -J

sharksupper

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 350
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: How to build a deep tuttle to plate adater?
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2018, 08:45:30 AM »
Nice. To be clear, the new foil mast is deep Tuttle and the intended board is plate system only?



Yes, that is correct, my board has a track mount only.  I also want the added height of the adapter.  I learned on a 28" mast and want to keep that height.

Beasho

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3224
    • View Profile
Re: How to build a deep tuttle to plate adater?
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2018, 09:42:22 AM »
Wow!  You are really motivated.

That WateRat box looks exactly like the box I had installed in my L41, plywood layer and all.  The inner Carbon female receiver for the Tuttle base is bomb-proof.  I know because my foil was ripped out of my board by a 12 foot wave.  The Tuttle, WaterRatt box, was split in half along the divincell.  But the carbon female part was 100% intact.  I just gorilla glued it all back together, added glass and carbon and its held for another 500 waves.

This is a long way of saying you could just work around that box, shape and fair it, and then mount the plate to the final configuration.

Photos of my box fail and repair here:
https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,32837.0.html
« Last Edit: April 01, 2018, 09:45:37 AM by Beasho »

sharksupper

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 350
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: How to build a deep tuttle to plate adater?
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2018, 10:37:19 AM »
Wow, that's crazy, I guess it's stronger than it looks!  I've headed down this route so I'm going to finish it.  Appreciate the info about the box!  That will be my backup plan if I can't get my own working.

sharksupper

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 350
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: How to build a deep tuttle to plate adater?
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2018, 02:27:48 PM »
I roughed up the plug with 60 grit all over and floated it in the box with epoxy to make up for the poor sizing.  Adding thickness any other way seems funky and probably won't be consistent.

For the base layup schedule: 10x 5.7oz carbon twill + 10x 5.7oz carbon plain weave + 1x ~7oz carbon/Kevlar (in case it cracks maybe the Kevlar will hold the parts together?).  This came out a tiny bit under 1/4" which is my target thickness... wanted to leave a little for some full length ply's over the whole unit when it's done.  Smashed the whole bit between mylars and a few hundred pounds of granite.

After this I start to make my own box using the plug.

sharksupper

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 350
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: How to build a deep tuttle to plate adater?
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2018, 08:28:09 PM »
Back to it.  The plate part is done, looking pretty.  I remembered later that I should have done bias and straight alternating layers, instead I did them all inline, oops!  It's really stiff side to side and front to back, but diagonally it has a little more flex.  No biggie?  It's a lot of damn carbon!  I'm thinking it's fine.  Easy enough to make another if someone thinks it's not going to cut it.

Deep tuttle plug was cleaned/finished after the re-casting.  Then waxed, gel coated, then laid up with several layers of carbon.  Some wrapping around the sides of the box and some going under the bottom, alternating.  All of them came around and had a couple of inches of overlap on the opposite side, then vacuum bagged.  Should be super strong as a starting piece.  This is just the initial shape of the box, then going to add to this base part and connect it to the plate for the final layers.

Found out AFTER I started the layup that I was out of peel ply, #&%*&#, ended up just folding it up in a bunch of 9oz glass and then breather.  I'll just sand it down on the belt sander, sigh.  <itch><itch>

Coming along.  Meanwhile, I have a FoilMount aluminum adapter on order, along with 70+ other people, and a Groove Kiteboarding carbon adapter too, 10days they say to make, then ship from Italy.  I'm thinking I can have mine done maybe by next week and get on the water a week or three earlier.  ;D

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25864
    • View Profile
Re: How to build a deep tuttle to plate adater?
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2018, 09:42:28 PM »
That's nice, and it should be plenty stuff. I've discovered I can cut carbon with my laser cutter. I doubt even with that I'd do better.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

sharksupper

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 350
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: How to build a deep tuttle to plate adater?
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2018, 02:47:53 PM »
And, voila, my own tuttle box... start anyway.  Yes, it really sucked not having release film, promptly ordered more ASAP!

I now understand my ignorance in my previous statement about the plywood in the original box.  I now understand why it's there.  As one solid sub straight, the sides of the tuttle box tend to bend in or out, but if you make the sides a sandwich layer, they won't be able to do that, as much anyway.  I noticed this after I saw my part had a slight bow in it, but nothing terrible.  As I layer up the carbon around it I will keep the plug in it to make sure it holds shape.  With enough thickness I don't think there will be much bowing of the side.

Time for getting my next step plan down for execution.  Going to build a thick layer under the box for the bolts to have a strong surface to crank down on, then going to figure out a shape for some foam to glue to the bottom of that so I can attach to the base piece I made and then layer all around and down the whole thing with carbon.

 


SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal