Leave politics out of it

[supthecreek]

What I have noticed... and experienced:
The animosity that rears its head on political threads sometimes carries over into the purely SUP threads.

Just an observation, cuz I care about the Zone.

[surf4food]

I'm with you Stoney but any thread title with the word "politics" in it, is asking for a debate...

No it's not.

That's  not a debate, that's  just arguing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

[Bean]

lastly, respect for those with differing opinions

From your lips to God's ears...

[SUP Leave]

I like discussing politics on this forum. Most folks here are fairly even keeled and thus I learn from the responses. Like Taut I live a fairly insular life and my exposure to folks with different mind set and ideology is limited. This helps expand a bit.

We all have quite a bit in common in that SUP is a fairly small world. Debates and fist fights are both educational, but I would rather debate for my learning.

Plus the political threads are pretty active and keep folks engaged with the forums.

Do whatever you want, but heated discourse is only words on a screen. I would promise to buy a beer for anyone on this forum if we are in the same vicinity.

[stoneaxe]

Yeah....I understand that side. I hate even making the suggestion truthfully but it just feels like politics is invading too much of everything. No doubt it will continue but I'm hoping we can at least minimize it.

[yugi]

I like discussing politics on this forum. Most folks here are fairly even keeled and thus I learn from the responses. Like Taut I live a fairly insular life and my exposure to folks with different mind set and ideology is limited. This helps expand a bit.

We all have quite a bit in common in that SUP is a fairly small world. Debates and fist fights are both educational, but I would rather debate for my learning.

Plus the political threads are pretty active and keep folks engaged with the forums.

Do whatever you want, but heated discourse is only words on a screen. I would promise to buy a beer for anyone on this forum if we are in the same vicinity.

Nice point, SUPleave. Nice to hear that.

I grew up on the border of several countries. I was born in yet another country with parents from other countries.

I grew up with “News” from all kinds of different sources. Radio shortwave, newspapers and TV reception from 4 different countries.

Learned the fun of checking things out from all different perspectives. The reality of different perspectives and, more important, the motivations behind those different “spins”.

It’s funny because the promise of the WorldWideWeb was that it could widen peoples perspectives. Yet people choose to stick to sources of info that comfort them.

Duh, kind of, if you look at it from an anthropologist’s perspective.

[eastbound]

one clear effect of the internet is the filtering of all our news--how many prog lib demos read breitbart, drudge, or watch fox? how many conservative right wingers read huffpost mother jones and watch msnbc.

used to be, to be well informed here in nyc, youd read the nytimes and the ws journal daily--no matter whether you were a communist or john birch himself--so you got  exposure to both sides--now one can easily choose to read nothing but aligned reinforcing points of view, with no need to read the other side of the story--not good

as well the internet serves to connect extremists--pre internet a neo nazi might be pretty isolated in wichita, and have to struggle a bit to get reinforcing information and contact---now he can join with wacko neo nazis from all of the world--one click away--he can enjoy a community of neo-nazis, all of whom reinfoce one another

of course a lonely supper in wichita gets to connect with a healthy community like this here zone--so it aint all bad

[stoneaxe]

I make an effort to do exactly that...I wish more folks would. I think of myself as a libertarian more than anything, some conservative views and some progressive. I've come to dislike the far left and right. Actually it's more than dislike because I think they are primarily responsible for the shit show we all are dealing with. It's part of why I started this thread...we need some compromise.....the far anything doesn't want that. I think the far right is slightly crazier than the far left but just my a smidge.

[pdxmike]

one clear effect of the internet is the filtering of all our news--how many prog lib demos read breitbart, drudge, or watch fox? how many conservative right wingers read huffpost mother jones and watch msnbc.

used to be, to be well informed here in nyc, youd read the nytimes and the ws journal daily--no matter whether you were a communist or john birch himself--so you got  exposure to both sides--now one can easily choose to read nothing but aligned reinforcing points of view, with no need to read the other side of the story--not good

I'd say it's even worse than that, because it goes beyond "choosing" what you read online.  What one person sees in the headlines, on facebook, etc. is entirely different than what another sees.  Read a few articles about any particular subject and more of those will appear on your screen, selected for you.

So once you set the direction--reading about police shootings, or gun rights, or paddling--you'll see more of that.  Pretty soon people with extreme views can feel like they're not extreme at all--"It's not just me, that's how everyone thinks"--and it's true as far as what they see on their own screen goes.  Someone else will be equally convinced there's an entirely different reality.  A lot of people are too clueless to realize it's cookies at work.

It's not new.  Years ago the examples of fragmentation vs. shared experiences or shared information were cable news--vs. everyone watching Huntley/Brinkley or Walter Cronkite--or maybe going to a football game, with the past experience being that every fan had the SAME experience, just that some were closer to the field than others, versus the newer experience of some people out in the elements eating hot dogs after taking the bus to the game, while others drive up to the concierge parking and watch from an indoor skybox with a catered meal.  Now the differences go all the way to what people think is happening in the news.

[stoneaxe]

It takes work and time to get a broad base of news sources. I listen to at least 2 hours of NPR a day, split lunch reading Fox and CNN and try and search out both points of view on a wide variety of sources by using Allsides.com https://www.allsides.com/unbiased-balanced-news

I have a good friend that is very conservative, he bizarrely married an ultra-liberal woman...talking with either of them is so frustrating. When I asked each where they get their news it's obvious why they are like they are. Neither WANTS to hear the other side....just what they agree with....they each live in their own world. They divorced about 6 months ago....

[stoneaxe]

oops...double post

[FloridaWindSUP]

I support Stoneaxe's suggestion to leave politics out of it, or keep it in the fringes like the "random" forum.

My experience in real life groups is that it's very helpful to stick to the group purpose, which unites the members, and to not reveal, or at least not emphasize, our opinions on potentially controversial topics unrelated to the group purpose. It's amazing how well that "stick to the group purpose" principle works in allowing different ages, political affiliations, education types, etc. to interact productively with minimal conflict.

As for what to do when someone does bring up politics, it helps me to remember the saying, "you don't have to go to every fight you're invited to."

[SUPcheat]

Tump can't SUP worth a bean because he's too damned conservative!

[SUP Sports ®]

Since I'm a Gemini, I tend to look at both sides of most any political debate with interest, as long as people aren't science deniers and drag religion into it...and, aren't planted with both feet at one polarized end of the spectrum or the other...there are usually a few good valid points that are made...

I've sold SUPs to elected folks that work in Washington, DC on both sides of the aisle...it seems that most of my clients agree that clean water, clean air, and open access to beaches are important...I wish that more politicians would get involved with an outdoor recreational activity that they are passionate about...the country would probably be a lot more purple...

One of my clients is Alex Castellanos has me on his mailing list for Op-Eds...he's a guest commentator on "Meet the Press" and a talking head for CNN...etc...he co-founded a bipartisan communications firm called Purple Strategies...he has worked on election campaigns for Republican candidates including Bob Dole, George W. Bush, Jeb Bush, and Mitt Romney...etc...even though I don't necessarily agree with him on some issues...I do find his writings interesting and well thought out...insightful...enough to have not unsubscribed since 2009...

Personally, I'd rather suffer political creep in some of these General Discussion threads than some of the misinformation and overt knee-jerk brand bias pretending to be cloaked as something else...;-)

[Ichabod Spoonbill]

Wardog, I agree that I don't think clean water, clean air, great waterways and as little pollution as possible are a political issue. I can't imagine a soul who wouldn't want that. How we get that could be political, but I think it's okay to argue over that. Let differing opinions see the light of day.