Negligent Operations... seriously!?!?

[805StandUp]

A friend of mine forwarded me this article earlier today:

https://capitalsup.com/noreaster-downwinder-what-really-happened/

and further information at...

http://www.marylandsup.com/downwinders/

From reading the article, it seems that the paddlers were well prepared (wore life vests, leashes, dry/wetsuits, downwind boards...etc.) for the conditions until they got pulled off of the water by the Department of Natural Resources and ticketed $320 each!

[FloridaWindSUP]

Ugh. I wonder if you can just refuse "help"?

[clay]

wow, that sucks 


I saw a post on Facebook today saying there is a proposed law in CA to give the cops similar powers to fine and charge "reckless or negligent" behavior on a SUP...
http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180SB1247
(I have no idea if this true or what?)

[stoneaxe]

Sad. We better stop climbing mountains, sailing seas, surfing, skiing, diving, playing tiddliwinks...it's all too dangerous

[SUPflorida]

Welcome to the nanny state, courtesy of the “progressive” movement.

[yugi]

Wow. What assholes (the rescue dorks). Especially the part where they make the paddlers freeze. That’s just plain arrogant and very very stupid. Especially if you have ever brought people back in from sea in cold conditions.

Technically sea rescue does have the right to make a judgement call and make you get on board. They can even leave your craft behind. Believe me that they are well used to getting a ton of shit afterwards from the craft owners and their lawyers are also well versed in protecting their rights.

Conditions were not wild. Looks like 25-35 knts on friday march 2nd.
   https://www.windfinder.com/report/annapolis_naval_academy/2018-03-02
   
   https://www.windfinder.com/report/chesapeake_bay_bridge_kent_island/2018-03-02

The part where they make the paddlers stand and freeze afterwards is criminal. They are completely working against the main purpose of their job for that. They can, and should get in big big trouble for that. They are putting people in danger. If I were there I’d have been calling in their command at that point. Complete bozo move.

I’m also well aware of the perspective of the rescue guys. They are out there to save people in small craft and technically the small craft advisory does instruct small craft to get to shelter.

I also understand they are completely unaware of SUP. For them a person standing on a surfboard looks a LOT less safe than a person on a small craft. And a lot of bozos in small craft tend to get in trouble above 30 knts. So it's an obvious thing for rescue to look out for.

Rescue should know the difference. It is their job. Especially in that area. That's right next to the Naval Academy. They have always a really good collegiate sailing team at the naval academy at Annapolis. I bet the good guys go out when it’s above 30 knts just for fun. I bet the rescue guys know the sailors out there training daily as well, and leave them alone.

Bottom line is it’s a learning curve for the rescue guys to get to know your abilities. It takes some time but eventually trust builds. I/we got hassled when we first did DWers. Especially the winter ones. Luckily seas were so rough it would have been a nightmare to get on board the rescue boats. We basically told them we were fine, smiled and waved and took off riding some bumps while they were out on deck struggling to stand up and hold on. They looked and felt like bozos being tossed around on their boat. We were fine, we could even stand and talk to them at rest. Taking off smiling and surfing right away they could tell we were comfortable. So they let it ride even if they opened the conversation by telling us to get onboard.

I have been in these situations with intermediate riders or worse idiots who refused to take a life jacket. Then we get more flack. They can tell who is comfortable and who isn’t now. We have always managed to talk our way out of it.

If this happens to you or in your area be friendly and try and educate them that you’re really OK. One day those guys will be saving you. They just didn’t know better. I’d go via the sailing team at the Naval Academy to get word to the rescuers that the “rescue” wasn’t necessarily necessary.

When it’s above 35 knts we almost always have rescue boats coming in on us. We ALWAYS thank them. It’s an amazing service if one does need them. Now they know us and we stop for a quick chat and exchange beta.

Best advice for the crew that happened to is the suck up the fine money (write it down to education) and use the opportunity to go talk to some senior people in the rescue service. Preferably along with sailors from the Naval Academy who the rescue guys probably see out there training every single day and know and respect. Be polite but firm on how being forced to stay exposed in the parking lot after for a long time was a really really terrible mistake.

[yugi]

Sad. We better stop climbing mountains, sailing seas, surfing, skiing, diving, playing tiddliwinks...it's all too dangerous

Welcome to the nanny state, courtesy of the “progressive” movement.

Sad but very true.

It’s odd because in Europe we have real “nanny” states with social safety nets, job retraining etc.. Yet out in nature people are left to be responsible for themselves. They do something stupid things happen to them. No big deal. In the US it is oddly the other way around.

Skiing in the USA is so over-controlled it’s a farce. It’s  a really strange attitude. Has to do with the uber litigious legal system where everything is someone else’s fault. They treat people like ninnies and then people act like ninnies. Mountains in Europe are open access. You do what you want under your own responsibility. You just aren’t allowed to put other peoples lives in danger.

[eastbound]

"Welcome to the nanny state, courtesy of the “progressive” movement."

so this is obama's fault, or some such garbage--let's lock hillary up for this!!

thx for the quality input

sounds like some cops of some sort got all stoopid---happens

most of the time i am glad they are there for us

i had a situation with coast guard, while sailing a laser2 with a friend in sick conditions in fisher's isalnd sound off ct--we were in wetsuits, pfd's etc--they told us to go in to shore---we explained we were fine--they considered the situation and said ok but to be careful--we tried to be careful, but did some gnarly cartwheels headed downwind! fun--glad it was my friend's boat

[MaineSUP]

Over the course of years we had people on shore call the coast guard when we would do downwinders.  The coast guard would come out to us 
and we explained to the coast guard that we were comfortable with the conditions they were reasonable and would let us be.  Then we proposed and the coast guard agreed that we would call the them in advance to let them know we were planning to go out, had our safety equipment, locator beacon, etc.  So, something to consider when dealing with law enforcement and members of the public watching from shore that are not used to seeing downwinding sups.

[stoneaxe]

Can we please leave politics out of it....how about we all simply agree to stop interjecting politics into posts about SUP. It's tearing this place and everything else apart. .....neither side has a monopoly on stupidity. I'm not saying don't make political statements...but go to random and start a new thread about the issue....let's stop poisoning the rest of the zone with this shit.

Couldn't agree more. Call them before you go out....I have the local harbormaster in my contacts...if I'm going out in the bay in the winter I call 1st with my plan. They used to...still do...get all kinds of calls about a stranded windsurfer on the water, or someone trapped on the ice. So I call and chat before hand now. They know now to question the caller as to whether it looks like the person has a wetsuit, are they standing up and paddling in a regular motion, etc.. They still come out on occasion. Problem is that what we do for fun to some looks like imminent death...especially if they see us a long way out in wild weather. I've also gotten to know them somewhat from the CCBC...they always give us an escort for the 1st 5 miles or so. I'm the CCBC SUP guy....

My son-in-law and I once had the harbor master in Marshfield called on us, who then called Duxbury, who then called Plymouth since we were last seen headed that way. It was a beautiful warm but windy summer day and we launched from Green Harbor. Great launch point, you paddle out behind the jetty and catch a wave passing by and just go...it's also a great surf spot in NE winds.....we disappeared pretty quick from the beach. It seems some concerned citizen called to say we were in distress when we got swept away. We were getting into Plymouth bay when the harbor master showed up. They came over and laughed and said they figured it was me...they did ask if we had PFD...I said we did as well as hydration packs, a snack, and cell phones....they laughed again said have fun and drove off.

Moral of the story..get to know them or at least call.

You have to remember that most people that know what we do think we are nuts....the people that don't understand think we are about to die.

[pdxmike]

I thought the actions and especially attitudes of the "rescuers" were horrible.  The fines should be dropped.  I hope the paddlers can use the Coast Guard's decision that there was no problem as certification by expert authorities that there was no problem, and the fact that the Coast Guard basically gave its approval to the paddlers should have been more than enough for the local authorities to back off.  As it is, the "rescuers" are saying it wasn't just the paddlers who didn't know what they were doing, the Coast Guard also didn't.

For the future, Stoneaxe's "call first" sounds like a good future solution, and that's all that the local authorities should have requested for the future.

I read about a similar situation with a couple high school swimmers a few years ago in California (I think).  They were at an evening party/event on an island with their friends.  At the end of the night, everyone went to the ferry to take it back to shore--about a mile.  The two guys told people they'd just swim home, so they did.  Unfortunately, someone called the authorities, who launched a search and rescue mission. 

The authorities sent the guys' families a bill for thousands for the search.  Similarly to this paddling story, they'd never been in distress, and they hadn't asked for the rescue--they didn't even know about it.  They just swam home.  High school swimmers will train several hours/several miles per day.  This was a shorter, easier swim that their daily warm up.  Yet to some other people, the idea of swimming a mile in open water at night sounded like certain death. 

Reminds me of when I used to run at night before it was popular, and buses kept stopping and waiting for me until they got used to me waving them off.  At least I had it easier than my black marathoner friend who worked nights, so trained around midnight, and kept getting stopped by the police until they figured it out.

[yugi]

Can we please leave politics out of it....
It's tearing this place and everything else apart. .....

[Board Stiff]

I read about a similar situation with a couple high school swimmers a few years ago in California (I think).  They were at an evening party/event on an island with their friends.  At the end of the night, everyone went to the ferry to take it back to shore--about a mile.  The two guys told people they'd just swim home, so they did.  Unfortunately, someone called the authorities, who launched a search and rescue mission. 

Something similar happened here in NH a while back, when a kid on the high school swim team decided to swim across the Piscataqua River:
http://www.seacoastonline.com/article/20080718/news/807180411

I think he made it across before the authorities went looking for him, but there was another case more recently where they came and pulled a swimmer off a buoy in the middle of the river:
http://www.unionleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120823/NEWS07/708249976/0/opinion01

The latter case involves the kind of moron that makes first responders overly cautious about allowing the former.

[Off-Shore]

Our Long Island downwind Group have had a couple of call outs from residents living on the shore and seeing paddle boarders downwinding out in 20+ knot winds. You can’t blame them for calling in especially if they see us fall repeatedly. So we always call the coast guard there before any run and let them know our launch place and  time and destination and expected arrival time on the understanding some member of the public is going to call in and report us. They also made it very clear that we are to all carry VHF radios and that phones and PLBs were merely back-up pieces of equipment.

Such is the relationship with the local coast guard that they recently asked us if they could do a rescue simulation with us the next time we are out. And of course we will absolutely do that.

So whilst I think this is a regrettable incident and I’m sure won’t be the last, I think the comments above about getting to know your local coast guard and work out a protocol on what to do is a good thing. Always assume that some member of the public will call if they see you out there.  I’m sure at the dawn of windsurfing and kitesurfing they went through similar issues...

[pdxmike]

It could be worse.  A security guard contracted by Portland's Parks Bureau once stopped an attack on the City's water supply by a group of terrorists armed with large swords.  It turned out to be a Tai Chi class, and the sword was the instructor's wooden prop.  Once he realized they weren't terrorists, he threatened to arrest them anyway:


http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-641-tongue-taid.html