Author Topic: Surfing Backside: video and discussion  (Read 12724 times)

supthecreek

  • Guest
Surfing Backside: video and discussion
« on: February 18, 2018, 07:11:17 AM »
I like surfing backside as much as frontside.
People always ask me how to surf backside, so here's a simple starter discussion on the mechanics of a backside turn.

SUP, by virtue of it's size, requires more leverage to turn, and my first SUP was 11'2 x 36" wide!
I found it much easier to turn that huge SUP backside, because the leverage was much more direct, with my heels right on the rail.

There are many moving parts to good backside surfing.
This post is about leverage and how it is applied.

Stand up right now....and look down your legs.
Your body weight is loaded directly into your heels.

Heels don't bend
therefore ALL your weight is applied heelside.

Ankles bend, so toeside pressure is less direct.

Now, think about your upper body and where it goes during turns, both frontside and backside.

When you turn backside, you are in a "sitting" position
Your butt hangs out over the rail, but your upper body leans back in, towards the board.
Returning your body back over the board after a turn is easy, because your upper body is bent in that direction anyway.

Conversely, in a frontside turn, you must commit your UPPER body farthest away from the board, and recovery depends on bringing the board back under your center mass.

The backside turn:
Use your rails and body weight
Move your heels.... or at least your back heel, close the rail... and crouch slightly.
This will move your butt out over the rail and all your body weight will be applied to the backside rail...... voila!
The board will easily come directly under you, as you come through the turn because your upper body is leaning forward as you crouch for the turn.

Video in slo-mo, then normal speed to see how this works.
(I just thought that I should make a "stop action video" to breakdown the moving parts.... but this slo-mo I made for a different forum should help)

the perception seems to be:
I am looking that way, so frontside is easier.

Give backside a try... and have fun!

Pics below the video show how the body position on a backside turn is actually easier than frontside.
#1
backside you can hang your butt way past the rail and all the weight is applied directly to the rail, through your immovable heels (red line)
while your head and shoulders are leaning back in towards the board. (blue line)

#2
Frontside, your weight is also applied to the board through your heels.... but they are closer to the center of the board (red line)
while your head and shoulders must be way out past the rail to apply the same leverage (blue line)

#3
Pic from 2011, on my 36" wide board


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmRaNFzxtZM







surfcowboy

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4929
    • View Profile
Re: Surfing Backside: video and discussion
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2018, 08:17:36 AM »
Thx Creek.

I surf goofy, backside all the time here. My main takeaway is that there's very little movement in this turn, just a slight move of the back foot. I liked getting to see that.  One thing I will note however, is that applying and moderating pressure with your toe side is more granular and in my experience easier to control.  The leverage is there for sure but for a lot of people the issue is one looking where they're going and to being able to control the amount and pace of the turn.

I'd just like to point out that in this video all your backside turns are 90° or less but your frontside cutback is about 180°. Is it fair to say that the leverage is there but maybe not as much control or balance? Leaning forward and leaning back for me are very different experiences. I can move my center of gravity much farther over my toes than my heels.

Another thing that affects my backside turns is my head and eyes. We go where we look. For the last six months I've been training myself to look back over my shoulder to initiate my backside turns.

Great video, please do more of this. Especially one showing a backside cutback to the foam for comparison. But yes, as a,goofy in SoCal this is something you're forced to focus on. I love a fast backside trimming wave.


supthecreek

  • Guest
Re: Surfing Backside: video and discussion
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2018, 09:29:42 AM »
Cowboy said:
"I'd just like to point out that in this video all your backside turns are 90° or less but your frontside cutback is about 180°. Is it fair to say that the leverage is there but maybe not as much control or balance?" .... and.... in this video all your backside turns are 90° or less but your frontside cutback is about 180°"

I think you just pointed out what makes backside easier than people think.... very little movement is required to snap a backside turn...
and the cutback is a frontside turn, making backside a fairly easy task.


also:
"Great video, please do more of this. Especially one showing a backside cutback to the foam for comparison"

Do you mean a cutback while surfing backside? ha ha... even my reply could be taken both ways. ;D
Since we are talking about going backside:
Here's an old video, shot from a nose cam, showing a cutback up onto 6' of white-water

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6_uCAk8yvU


I can't come anywhere close to this move when surfing frontside.
I need to move my back foot to the stomper and get much lower..... but that's another thread.... soloshot will make it happen!



southwesterly

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2679
    • View Profile
Re: Surfing Backside: video and discussion
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2018, 11:03:44 AM »
The only thing I like about going left is when I get to do a cutback and it feels like a frontside turn.

Being born and raised in the land of right point breaks, my backside surfing has suffered.

Thanks for posting the video. Shit like that and board reviews are why I'm on the Zone.

That and maybe to razz some people.

WhatsSUP

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 983
    • View Profile
Re: Surfing Backside: video and discussion
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2018, 02:39:05 PM »
Great vid/lesson Creek!  Glad to see the SS3 earning its keep on this vid....super quality!

Although a novice, I (as a goofy foot) enjoy riding backside as much as I do front side.  A bit of a breakthrough for me on my Creek during a great session yesterday.....I repeatedly was able to get my back foot further back than in previous sessions and was trimming and initiating turns sooooo much easier.  I put some nice rides together (for me) and was even able to completely change direction (from frontside to backside and vice versa) on several waves  - by the time I changed direction the wave(s) had either already crumbled behind me or were about too, but I got the feeling of what its like.  So pumped! 

Will definitely be watching this vid several more times and study up!

LOVE LOVE LOVE these types of vids! 

Can't wait to see more SS3 footage from FLA wave adventures!!!!!!

   
Jimmy Lewis B&B Flat nose 10'1"
Sunova Creek 9'4" 
TAVA 11'2"
NSP Element 11'
KeNalu Wiki paddle
Kialoa Insanity paddle
Misc other paddles

FRP

  • Bob
  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 475
    • View Profile
Re: Surfing Backside: video and discussion
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2018, 04:13:03 PM »
Thanks Creek

These instructional videos are much appreciated. I have a simple question and that is when surfing backside (regular footed) do you always keep the paddle handle in your right hand so the paddle blade is over the front left side of the board?

Cheers

Bob
Sunova 8'10" Speeed
Sunova 8’7” Creek
Sunova 9’x30” Revolution
KeNalu Konihi 84 (primary paddle)
Kialoa Pipes II
Werner Nitro Carbon

"The time spent surfing is time that is added to my life" “In the ocean we are all connected”
Anon

supthecreek

  • Guest
Re: Surfing Backside: video and discussion
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2018, 05:33:44 PM »
Hi Bob
Each surfer has his/her own way to use the paddle during turns.
Some folks change with every turn, using the paddle on the side of the turn.

Backside, sometimes I use the paddle during a turn... sometimes I don't (pic #1)
Regardless, I always switch it to toe side, so I have something to lean on after a top turn (pic #2)

Frontside, I ALWAYS use the paddle toeside, during any forehand turn (pic#3)

surfcowboy

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4929
    • View Profile
Re: Surfing Backside: video and discussion
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2018, 06:10:06 PM »
Totally get what you're saying creek. I do love the fade.

The reason I mentioned the 90° turn is that I never really get facing back towards the top of the wave going backside. I agree that it's not hard to snap those little quick ones. I just struggle to keep the pressure on beyond that.

I do need to practice your foot move though. That angle and your explanation makes it so easy to see what you're doing. Kudos to the Creekshot 3. ;)

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25864
    • View Profile
Re: Surfing Backside: video and discussion
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2018, 06:47:17 PM »
Like southwesterly, the thing I like best about going left is the hard, tight cutbacks I can pull off. But while I complain about my weenie lefts I actually like doing them. And my recent foiling experience has made me automatically seek the middle of the board with my front foot and to cover the fin with my back. I still shift the back foot to the turning rail, but my position is making for some pretty snappy turns in both directions.

Nice instruction Creek, and I'm going to try that butt over the rail thing. I think I do it now, but then I think I do a lot of hard turns and trace hardly counts any of them.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

stoneaxe

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 12084
    • View Profile
    • Cape Cod Bay Challenge
Re: Surfing Backside: video and discussion
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2018, 09:29:24 PM »
I need to start taking advantage of our friendship. I'm off Wednesday's now...when you come back from the land of sunshine lunch is on me for some mid week lessons.... :)
Bob

8-4 Vec, 9-0 SouthCounty, 9-8 Starboard, 10-4 Foote Triton, 10-6 C4, 12-6 Starboard, 14-0 Vec (babysitting the 18-0 Speedboard) Ke Nalu Molokai, Ke Nalu Maliko, Ke Nalu Wiki Ke Nalu Konihi

supthecreek

  • Guest
Re: Surfing Backside: video and discussion
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2018, 07:10:51 AM »
Wednesdays it is Stony! I would love to surf with you more  :)
Stoked to hear you are taking a mid week surf day.... let's have some fun!
But, it's 85* here all week.... so it won't be any time soon  ;D

Note on my foot movement....
My Creek is a big board at 9'4 x 32" wide..... I designed it to be stable at 235 lbs and full winter gear....
it's overkill now that I am losing weight and in trunks all the time..... so a lot of back foot movement is necessary when surfing backside.
frontside I do more with my body and less foot movement.




SUP Sports ®

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3216
  • Stoked For Life ®
    • View Profile
    • SUP Sports ®
    • Email
Re: Surfing Backside: video and discussion
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2018, 02:41:50 PM »
The only thing I like about going left is when I get to do a cutback and it feels like a frontside turn.

Being born and raised in the land of right point breaks, my backside surfing has suffered.

Thanks for posting the video. Shit like that and board reviews are why I'm on the Zone.

That and maybe to razz some people.

I was also born in the land of right handers...a couple dozen of them...have seen lots of pros demolish them frontside...including world champions Kelly Slater...Tom Curren...Shaun Tomson...as well as Dane Reynolds...Malloy Brothers...Conner Coffin...Kim Mearig...Lakey Peterson...etc...

It's pretty weird but most of my best surfing friends have all been goofy footers...and, hands down the best goofy footer that I have seen personally is ex-pro, Bobby Martinez...love his back hand moves...so vertical...

Same Bobby Martinez that told the ASP "I don't want to be a part of this dumb f***ing wannabe tennis tour"...

There are better clips out there...but, this one is solid...

https://youtu.be/JNai4oIC_jA

I was fortunate to get some backside practice at the Oxnard beach breaks...Jalama...and, certain spots in Humboldt...as well as that left hander that you know about down in the Baja...etc...before really getting into back hand surfing down in Mainland Mexico...decades later on my SUPs, I still try and get low and wound up trying to emulate my prone surf style...always interesting how everyone has a different approach and style based on their surfing backgrounds...
Mahalos...{:~)

WARDOG ®
Owner/CEO  StandUp Paddle Sports®  &   SurfingSports®.com, Inc.

(805)962-SUPS (7877) store
(888)805-9978 toll free

Retail Store:
Standup Paddle Sports, LLC
121 Santa Barbara St.
Santa Barbara, CA 93101

ospreysup

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Surfing Backside: video and discussion
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2018, 04:59:22 PM »
I have really begun to enjoy backside surfing so much these past few months but the difference maker for me were my eyes. I just love in your slo-mo, with  your heel on the rail, your eyes then go the up wave face. You really see the board react right at that point. This was such a struggle for me as I progressed backside but once you see it you SEE IT! That is when I realized I could throw all that weight over the rail and that my eyes would take me where I was looking. Then how much easier it  is to simply bring my eyes back around to cutback (my back foot just followed my eyes). I found the eyes leading the turn with the heel on the backside rail  incredibly challenging as a developing surfer. My guess and its only a guess because I'm pretty new at this thing is that opening up my front hip to let me see was scary. I  think I have just progressed to that happening because I have never really given it a thought until looking at your stills and slo-mo.

I think the other important thing you demonstrate  for the developing surfer, technique so outdoes the performance of the board. The Avanti is a big board and your position, not the board, is generating the turn. Progressing surfers (and thats definitely me) should master the turns before thinking "I need a new board." Be stable on the board, learn to turn back and frontside then begin your board progression.

Thanks for posting, I know these types of post help those of us developing grow more then you can imagine.

surfcowboy

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4929
    • View Profile
Re: Surfing Backside: video and discussion
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2018, 06:47:44 PM »
Osprey, great point. I practice on land now turning my body and looking over my shoulder like I want to do on the wave.

Once you grab rail and fly through a section you never wanna go frontside again. I love that feeling.

On the "new board" thing. I figured out that it wasn't the board when I had my 10'6" and was convinced that it was too big to turn til I started just trying to see how far I could push it at the end of a ride before I fell off. Doing that when it didn't matter showed me how far I could push that board and then I could "risk it" earlier in the wave. Great lesson.

Creek, I surf a wide tailed Simmons a lot so that's why I noticed your foot. I can't seem to get that foot to the edge. It's just like having a big board in that way.

APPST_Paddle

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 718
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Surfing Backside: video and discussion
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2018, 04:43:49 AM »
Osprey, great point. I practice on land now turning my body and looking over my shoulder like I want to do on the wave.

Once you grab rail and fly through a section you never wanna go frontside again. I love that feeling.

On the "new board" thing. I figured out that it wasn't the board when I had my 10'6" and was convinced that it was too big to turn til I started just trying to see how far I could push it at the end of a ride before I fell off. Doing that when it didn't matter showed me how far I could push that board and then I could "risk it" earlier in the wave. Great lesson.

Creek, I surf a wide tailed Simmons a lot so that's why I noticed your foot. I can't seem to get that foot to the edge. It's just like having a big board in that way.

Yeah, I get in moods where all I want to do is go backside. I have noticed that it's much easier to get your weight back on the tail going backside just by virtue of riding on your heels.

I will say that board size/type do make a difference in that my legs/knee bend, etc. is completely different (for me anyways) on a longboard-style SUP. I'm more upright, and it's obviously more back foot pressure to get the board to pivot up and turn.
7'6" JL Super Frank Lean
8'2" JL SuperTech 
10'1" JL Black and Blue
14' BIC WS Tracer
6'5" JL Flying-V/GoFoil Maliko 200
Kenalu Ho'oloa 95, Werner Rip Stick 79

 


SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal