Author Topic: pfd ***UPDATE*** California style  (Read 7501 times)

hbsteve

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pfd ***UPDATE*** California style
« on: February 05, 2018, 03:18:25 PM »
I got stopped again this morning by the same Sheriff as last time.
Thanks to all of you and the manufacture of the pfd I have, I'm smarter now.  So, I quoted the Code of Federal Regulation 175.15, that says my type III
inflatable can be carried on the board.  We had a brief discussion and then they left.  A few minutes later, they came back.  He showed me a booklet "ABCs of California Boating".
Oh Oh.  When I asked if their office carried the booklet he gave his copy to me.
Here it is:
"California boating law requires that all Type I, II and III lifejackets must be readily accessible...."   And then "Note:  An inflatable life jacket must be worn to be considered readily accessible."
I'll start wearing mine.



« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 03:25:00 PM by hbsteve »

TallDude

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Re: pfd ***UPDATE*** California style
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2018, 03:33:22 PM »
Anything about smoking pot while operating a human powered watercraft?
It's not overhead to me!
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2Rivers

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Re: pfd ***UPDATE*** California style
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2018, 04:08:58 PM »
I got stopped again this morning by the same Sheriff as last time.
Thanks to all of you and the manufacture of the pfd I have, I'm smarter now.  So, I quoted the Code of Federal Regulation 175.15, that says my type III
inflatable can be carried on the board.  We had a brief discussion and then they left.  A few minutes later, they came back.  He showed me a booklet "ABCs of California Boating".
Oh Oh.  When I asked if their office carried the booklet he gave his copy to me.
Here it is:
"California boating law requires that all Type I, II and III lifejackets must be readily accessible...."   And then "Note:  An inflatable life jacket must be worn to be considered readily accessible."
I'll start wearing mine.
Interesting. You should have quoted California's Regulation and Section Codes regarding PFDs since they can supersede the federal ones. So what's the actual California Section Code and/or Code of Regulation number for this provision containing this language? We would all benefit from knowing this specific detail. Thanks!
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hbsteve

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Re: pfd ***UPDATE*** California style
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2018, 06:25:45 PM »
2Rivers, you are right.
I've spent over an hour trying to find the exact code.  That isn't so easy.  Finally, I emailed State of California and asked for that information.
We'll see.

pdxmike

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Re: pfd ***UPDATE*** California style
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2018, 08:24:02 PM »
hbsteve:  This information from the California State Parks Division of Boating and Waterways differs from what you were told:
https://dbw.parks.ca.gov/pages/28702/files/ABC's_2016_RequiredEquipment.pdf

On page 24, under "Required equipment" for "Sailboats and manually propelled vessels", it states

"Note: A type V life jacket must be worn to be considered readily accessible"

Only some inflatables are Type V, so according to this info you should only be required to wear a Type V inflatable.

Lots of times, publications--even those by the regulatory agencies--are sloppily written, so the only way to know the answer for sure is to look up the actual regulation.  (And the people patrolling and regulating also often don't know the specifics.)  I don't know if California has its own regulations, or it just uses the federal regulations (which as you said, says you don't have to wear a Type III inflatable).


So it will be interesting to see what you find when you see the actual regulation's wording.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 08:38:14 PM by pdxmike »

Eagle

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Re: pfd ***UPDATE*** California style
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2018, 08:34:08 PM »
"So what's the actual California Section Code and/or Code of Regulation number for this provision containing this language?"

Think that is what should govern the actual requirement.  The ABC pdf is not to be used for law enforcement or litigation etc.  So would wait until you get an official code that states that specific wear requirement.  But as noted for us we always wear an inflatable PFD anyways on a SUP.  So is kinda moot for us.  But is always good to get definitive clarification.
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Re: pfd ***UPDATE*** California style
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2018, 06:37:22 AM »
It's probably a typo.

The person who wrote the booklet made a mistake. It should specify that only type V inflatables are required to be worn.

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Weasels wake

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Re: pfd ***UPDATE*** California style
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2018, 07:45:21 AM »
They will try anything to pay for that Ca. bullet train.
It takes a quiver to do that.

yugi

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Re: pfd ***UPDATE*** California style
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2018, 08:16:58 AM »
I buy, and wear, an inflatable pfd mainly to keep the law happy.

I use a tiny ultra-light one and that isn’t even  fully legal but because I always wear it law enforcement is very happy with it. I get checked dozens of times a year. In the end it’s a lot about the relationship you develop with the officials.

I must admit I find it odd to take an inflatable on board but not wear it. They don’t even float.

If I were to carry a pfd onboard I’d use any old cheapo on hand. One you’ll never wear and can always be wet and smelly.



addapost

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Re: pfd ***UPDATE*** California style
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2018, 03:38:50 AM »
I buy, and wear, an inflatable pfd mainly to keep the law happy.

I use a tiny ultra-light one and that isn’t even  fully legal but because I always wear it law enforcement is very happy with it. I get checked dozens of times a year. In the end it’s a lot about the relationship you develop with the officials.

I must admit I find it odd to take an inflatable on board but not wear it. They don’t even float.

If I were to carry a pfd onboard I’d use any old cheapo on hand. One you’ll never wear and can always be wet and smelly.
I also don't get why someone would carry a belt type inflatable on board but not wear it. I don't even know mine is there.
Bunch of old shit

hbsteve

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Re: pfd ***UPDATE*** California style
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2018, 10:25:05 AM »
Melissa Miranda from Parks.ca.gov got back to me today via email.
I haven't figured out how to include the email here.  So here is the basic information.
California Code of Regulations, Article 4, Equipment Requirements 6565.5.
She did say "we have previously written that the inflatable must be worn to be considered accessible, but please follow the manufacture's instructions on the label and/or the owner's manual because some do say they must be worn to count toward the carriage requirement and others may not say that".
Code 6565.5 follows USGS regulations regarding types I, II and III.  Code 6565.6 talks about type V.  The regulations do not make any mention of inflatable.



hbsteve

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Re: pfd ***UPDATE*** California style
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2018, 04:26:51 PM »
Hi Steve,
 
Thanks for writing us to learn more about California boating law. You are right that we have previously written that the inflatable must be worn to be considered readily accessible but please follow the manufacturer’s instructions on the label and/ or the owner’s manual because some do say they must be worn to count toward the carriage requirement and others may not say that. Please see the citations below for your reference.
 
California Code of Regulations, Article 4, Equipment Requirements, § 6565.5. Personal Flotation Devices Required:
 
Except as provided in Section 6565.6:
(a) Effective January 1, 1998, no person may use a recreational boat unless at least one PFD of the following types is on board for each person:
(1) Type I PFD,
(2) Type II PFD, or
(3) Type III PFD.
(b) Prior to January 1, 1998, a Type IV may be carried in lieu of any Type I, II, or III PFD, for each person on board a recreational boat less than 16 feet in length or any canoe or kayak of any length.
(c) No person may use a recreational boat 16 feet or more in length, except a canoe or kayak, unless
(1) One Type IV PFD is on board, and
(2) At least one PFD of the following types is on board for each person:
(i) Type I PFD;
(ii) Type II PFD; or
(iii) Type III PFD.
Note: Authority cited: Sections 652 and 669, Harbors and Navigation Code. Reference: Section 652, Harbors and Navigation Code.
§ 6565.6. Exceptions.
 
A Type V PFD may be carried in lieu of any PFD required under Section 6565.5 provided:
(a) The approval label on the Type V PFD indicates that the device is approved:
(1) For the activity in which the boat is being used; or
(2) As a substitute for a PFD of the Type required on the boat in use;
(b) The PFD is used in accordance with any requirements on the approval label; and
(c) The PFD is used in accordance with requirements in its owner's manual, if the approval label makes reference to such a manual.
Note: Authority cited: Sections 652 and 669, Harbors and Navigation Code. Reference: Section 652, Harbors and Navigation Code.
 
Hope this helps.
 
Thanks,
 
Melissa Miranda, Boating Education and Outreach Coordinator
California State Parks Division of Boating and Waterways
1 Capitol Mall, Suite 500  ç Sacramento, California 95814
Melissa.Miranda@parks.ca.gov      ç     (916) 327-1832
 

 
 
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 04:33:08 PM by hbsteve »

2Rivers

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Re: pfd ***UPDATE*** California style
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2018, 05:49:52 PM »
This is an interesting topic to me, so I’ve done some deeper research and here’s what I’ve concluded.

First thing to know is CA’s Definitions under CCR (CA Code of Regulations) Section Code 6565.2.

There are specific descriptions for a “boat”, a “recreational boat”, and a “vessel”.

Under CG rules paddleboards are deemed as a vessel, not a boat or recreational boat. Also remember that CA conforms to the definitions and regulations established by the CG as defined in Section 652(b) of the CA Harbors and Navigation Code. 

Here are the critical aspects:

CCR Section Code 6564 (PFDs) contains the only reference to a “vessel” under CA state law.

Pursuant to Section 652, Harbors and Navigation Code, a vessel being operated on the waters of this State shall carry personal flotation equipment as prescribed in Sections 6565 to 6566, inclusive.

I've concluded that Section Codes 6565 (PFDs for Boats), 6565.5 (PFDs Required), and 6565.7 (Stowage) do not pertain to vessels like paddleboards, only boats and recreational boats (and 16"+ canoes & kayaks). Now if paddleboards were perhaps considered recreational boats, we would still be required to carry a Type I-III PFD on board. There's no specific language regarding inflatable PFDs, but that leads me to my next detail.

Under Section Code 6565.6 (Exceptions) it allows the use of a Type V PFD in lieu of a Type I-III, but it has to be used in accordance to the requirements on the label and owners manual. This is the most important detail pertaining to the "wearing" requirement.

Type V PFDs that are allowed to be used in lieu of a Type I-III PFD are generally required to be worn in order to meet the CG carriage requirements. This holds especially true for inflatable PFDs (shoulder and waist) since the majority of them are Type V.  This “wearing” requirement will be indicated on the label and in the owner’s manual.

In summery I feel the only CA PFD laws that are applicable to adult paddleboarders fall under Section Codes 6564 and 6565.6. 

6564 code violation – Not carrying a Type I-III PFD (inflatable or foam) that’s readily accessible.

6565.6 code violation - Not wearing a Type V PFD by not following the requirements on the label and owner’s manual requiring it to be worn to meet CG carriage requirements.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 06:49:26 PM by 2Rivers »
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supthecreek

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Re: pfd ***UPDATE*** California style
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2018, 05:16:06 AM »
I have never been checked or even looked at... and I paddle well over 100 days a year.

Mostly on Cape Cod, but also in VA, SC and Florida

I like it this way.

2Rivers

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Re: pfd ***UPDATE*** California style
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2018, 12:58:27 PM »
Now if paddleboards were perhaps considered recreational boats, we would still be required to carry a Type I-III PFD on board.
I find this interesting... Under Section Code 6565.3, and in the context in which it's written, it implies that CA would deem a paddleboard as a "recreational boat". So like I stated in my quote above, Section Code 6565.5 would then be in effect.
https://govt.westlaw.com/calregs/Document/I5F64EED0D48611DEBC02831C6D6C108E?viewType=FullText&originationContext=documenttoc&transitionType=CategoryPageItem&contextData=(sc.Default)
So on that note, if one were to not carry a Type I-III that's easily accessible, then they would be in violation of two section codes... 6564 and 6565.5
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 01:05:18 PM by 2Rivers »
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