Recommended FLAT WATER board

[Eagle]

I know of team riders struggling on that board so I think your definition of it being stable is extremely relative !!

Haha!  You must give that board a try at some point.  Even the fatter 23 designed to handle your weight.  Feels so much more efficient.  But we have all seen -> there have been races where a Sprint loses easily to an AS.  So just depends on the rider and conditions etc.

Going too narrow and too tippy has a definite limit.  The feel of a low rocker Sprint in steep chop is not pleasant.  There the early rise and rocker of the AS makes so much more sense.  In my mind for racing you need a wider tail for stability if you want to go narrow.  And a narrower board with tail is faster than a wider pin to pin board.  Especially over longer distances like 11 City where fatigue sets in.  Pin to pin have a pretty narrow sweet zone.

The closest we have to pin to pin is our fat 30 Touring.  Is actually a really good board with a very clean release.  But has way too much width drag to be efficient or fast.  The 27.5 Bark Dom is faster and AS23 way faster on flat.  So yes always relative!  Always compromises.  Always pros and cons.

[Luc Benac]

@LUC
Drain holes add turbulence to water. Some designs are more prone to affecting speed in a negative way. As a general rule, when you have huge holes (like the ones on the Ace) you will be slowed down on dead-flat water - mostly because of their shear size, left open at all times. Making them smaller (like on the Sprint 17'6 x 23") and you get far less drag. However, making them smaller isn't necessary the answer, because it would defeat the purpose on the Ace - a board which is primarily designed for open water. You'll want that board to drain FAST.
You could cover the holes, and make a slit in the center. That would give you a little less drag, but still allow a little bit of water to escape. This may only be practical for flat or semi flat water though.
Sadly, most manufacturers don't want to mess with added components: Manual drain, rudder, pedal, front leash plug, etc... at least in my opinion.

Thank you.
I noticed that often on flat water there is some water staying in the board as a result of the front holes so I do plug them. Except that I keep loosing the plugs that I painfully cut :-)
I am also using mitigating strategy as per the picture.

[photofr]

Well, if you are going to go to that level of trouble for a board, why not get a custom from Joe Bark himself?

THIS! That blue and black Savage River reminds me of really old Bark boards built for Jimmy Terrell. He knows a thing or two
about flat water. 

Thanks for sharing ISLAND.
This is (to me) another example of a really good looking board Design - for flat water.

[photofr]

For reference, the Nelo 520 is 51.5cm (20.28") at its widest point, by 520cm (17') for its length. The glide is so amazing (again, compared to any SUP that I know) that you could probably add 2 more inches in width for some added stability - and still have great glide characteristics. Heck, my K2 surfski (with 56cm) has better glide than any SUP board I have ever been on - and its stability while standing is downright amazing - with plenty to spare.

The only issue referencing the Nelo 520 is your 14' constraint. As I understand it, one of key elements for achieving this kind of efficiency is the beam to length ratio of 10:1.
These measurements are not random 20.28":204" (17'). To achieve this ratio on a 14' sup you'll have to be at 16.8" width so you might want to give this consideration in your working theory.

We can't win?!
In my opinion, and based on experience, the 10:1 general rule actually should fall between 10:1 and 15:1 - thus making matters even worst.

Worst, because it is clear that:
- I will need a 14' board specifically for the 11-city Tour, AND...
- I will need a UL board 550cm x 55cm (18' x 21.7") - for the purpose of training year-round on flat water, to enjoy true-glide, to train for my other activities, for fun, and for health)

** Anything other than a UL is gonna be a compromise of some sort, so I might as well enjoy, and get something quickly. Why wait 2 to 4 months for a custom 14' ?

** There are plenty of (not perfect) but really good stock 14' boards available.
NSP - Ninja - 14' x 22"
Mistral - Vortex - 14' x 23.4"
Fanatic - Strike - 14' x 21.5"
Starboard - Sprint - 14' x 21.5"
SIC - RS - 14' x 23"
NELO - 14' x 23" (Hollow Board)
And not to forget others like the Bark, the 425 etc...

[Area 10]

“I will need a UL board 550cm x 55cm (18' x 21.7") - for the purpose of training year-round on flat water, to enjoy true-glide, to train for my other activities, for fun, and for health)”

Yes. This is one reason why racing won’t be a long-term proposition for 99% of people. No matter what 14ft board you use, you are still going to feel limited by it. So training day in and day out is frustrating in a way that doesn’t happen with eg. running or swimming or tennis or whatever. The limitations of the equipment suck the inherent pleasure out of the activity. So racing becomes about who can stand the most pain and frustration, not who loves the sport most. My suggestion is that if you truly love paddling, then don’t bother racing, but instead get an UL board of the dimensions you quote, and just paddle for the sheer enjoyment of it. You’ll probably be healthier, and certainly happier.

[burchas]

My suggestion is that if you truly love paddling, then don’t bother racing, but instead get an UL board of the dimensions you quote, and just paddle for the sheer enjoyment of it. You’ll probably be healthier, and certainly happier.

^And most definitely end up with more money in your pocket!

We can't win?!

There is hope, if you do like racing but don't want to compromise, just enter a race with your favorite vessel and do what you do. If you end up winning a podium just let the one behind you get honors, that is if organizers
won't do it for you.

I did it a couple of times with my custom 16' and had a total blast. I don't race much, but when I do, I would certainly want to test my custom board, into which I've spend so much time and effort, and see
how it fares in race conditions, that's part of the fun in paddling for me and it's my little win

It is obvious you're passionate about paddling and vessel design, so I'm sure you'll end up with one killer custom unlimited. I personally think it would make a much more interesting story to read about your exploits
on the 11 city tour with your UFO board. As they say, Go Big or Go Home

[Area 10]

What he said ^

[Luc Benac]

Specially if you are at reasonable driving distance from a decent customs shaper. If you have to ship across a continent or an ocean then it is more difficult....otherwise a 16~17 flat water light chop customs would be in my horizon for sure for a two boards quiver.
What that it says in the book " and one board to rule them all"...

[photofr]

Good point @AREA and @BURCHAS.
You may very well be right, and SUP racing may slowly take a turn - for the worst.

It's a bit like biking, where the most fun I have ever had HAS BEEN when I wasn't racing. Trips like Fort Lauderdale to Atlanta on one stretch (wearing nothing but a jersey, a pair of shorts, shoes and a credit card) has marked my childhood for LIFE!!!

The "heck" with racing - really.

Here's an off subject:
I've personally watched people on SUP show up at 8am (and packed their boards at 3pm) - after racing a mere 11km on a their boards - side wind one way, and side wind the other way. I was very sad when I heard that because: During that time, I was able to paddle out to an island on my SUP (10km), paddle another 9km along side the entire length of that island, and then enjoy a 17km DW back to shore / home to grab my surfski to finally paddle another 5km to watch the finish of the SUP race and take photos.

Basically, I had a blast and felt like I got a hell of a workout on my 35+ km.
The SUP racers didn't seem to really enjoy themselves.

Putting it all in prospective for the present and near-future:

2018 FLAT WATER BOARD
One 14' stock technical board, specifically for getting back into shape, and dedicated to one race: the 11-city Tour (if I am ready). That will pretty much mark my final race. I am leaning on the NELO Light Corp (14' x 23") - mainly because it's built to last, yet seems technical enough for my needs. 

2018 DW BOARD
My 14'x 25" ACE (the only board that I have right now)

2019: It's still far away, but looks like I'll be on a surfski, and UL board - yet keep the 14' board for the "just in case". All of it will be for the fun, healthy part of it all, and hope to be filled with great adventures.

FLAT WATER BOARD - 2019
Custom flat water board, 550cm x 55cm, needle nose, needle tail, largest point behind the feet, somewhat round, foot-operated DeBrito drain, extremely dug-out standing area for stability, and a tiny rudder. This board should take care of 80% of my SUP paddling needs.

OPTIONAL DW BOARD - 2019
Custom DW board, 550cm x 58cm, narrow nose but tall nose for volume (similar to a Nelo 520), needle tail, largest point behind the feet, somewhat FLAT, foot-operated DeBrito drain, well dug-out standing area, and rudder operated. This board should make a great DW board, yet very capable as a photo-shoot board / touring board on flat water / camping and touring trips / any condition board - especially if weight can be kept to a minimum.

Only time will tell, but in the name of HAVING FUN, we will start with just one more board.
(that's what I keep telling my wife)

[burchas]

2018 FLAT WATER BOARD
One 14' stock technical board, specifically for getting back into shape, and dedicated to one race: the 11-city Tour (if I am ready). That will pretty much mark my final race. I am leaning on the NELO Light Corp (14' x 23") - mainly because it's built to last, yet seems technical enough for my needs. 

2018 DW BOARD
My 14'x 25" ACE (the only board that I have right now)

2019: It's still far away, but looks like I'll be on a surfski, and UL board - yet keep the 14' board for the "just in case". All of it will be for the fun, healthy part of it all, and hope to be filled with great adventures.

FLAT WATER BOARD - 2019
Custom flat water board, 550cm x 55cm, needle nose, needle tail, largest point behind the feet, somewhat round, foot-operated DeBrito drain, extremely dug-out standing area for stability, and a tiny rudder. This board should take care of 80% of my SUP paddling needs.

OPTIONAL DW BOARD - 2019
Custom DW board, 550cm x 58cm, narrow nose but tall nose for volume (similar to a Nelo 520), needle tail, largest point behind the feet, somewhat FLAT, foot-operated DeBrito drain, well dug-out standing area, and rudder operated. This board should make a great DW board, yet very capable as a photo-shoot board / touring board on flat water / camping and touring trips / any condition board - especially if weight can be kept to a minimum.

Only time will tell, but in the name of HAVING FUN, we will start with just one more board.
(that's what I keep telling my wife)

That sounds like a solid plan. If you do end up getting the Nelo, please post your review after you put some good miles on it.
I'm sure you'll have better pics of the board than Nelo does.

As for the Flat water unlimited, Drain holes VS Debrito, did you ever do a speed test to see how much drag the open hole creates?
The reason I ask is, if the difference is minuscule, the foot operated Debrito might be more trouble than its worth outside the scope of racing.
especially if you're going to include the foot operated rudder.

As much as I like this mechanism, for my own board I would first try to address the drain issue with a good design if possible (e.g. savage river).

Let us know what did you come up with. Would be interesting to see. Good Luck!

[photofr]

The only tests I did was using various surfskis.
The results are simplified below:
Take a surfski, AND MAKE SURE that your drain is in the closed position as often as possible, even during downwind conditions. Once in a while, and on the rare occasion that water enters your cockpit, simply open the drain wide. The DeBrito is the easiest to open and close, the only I can actually open and close with my feet with ease, and the fastest draining of any other competition. It's on all new Nelo surfski, sadly not made by Nelo. Hats off to DeBrito on that one.

In the open position, drag was between 0.3 and 0.4 km/h slower.
That difference was so great that when paddling a V10 Sport Epic surfski with the drain in the open position, speed on flat water was very close to the speed of a V8 Epic surfski.

I repeated this test with the Epic V12 and V10 (standard). Results were nearly identical.

Given a chance, get a manual drain - in fact, get the DeBrito for all the above reasons. Installing it on a SUP is super easy, and operating it with one foot is just THAT simple (I tried it on a K2 and it was childs' play).

...and remember, you are not going to need it open but 10% of the time or so.

I'll keep you guys informed. Meanwhile, training on flat water with an Ace - with plenty of rocker, and lots of open drains (4 of them to be exact - and all oversized).

[Eagle]

"One 14' stock technical board, specifically for getting back into shape, and dedicated to one race: the 11-city Tour (if I am ready). That will pretty much mark my final race."

Would seriously go for the Sprint 21.5 over any 23 wide board if looking to maximize glide and efficiency and speed.  But always depends on the skill of the rider.  If you need stability and get dunked -> the 23 will be faster.  Remember Robert at 195 stayed dry in rough water on his fast custom 21. 

[photofr]

Yeah, agreed:
The Sprint 14x21.5 is narrow, and I find it quite stable. It also cuts the water VERY WELL.

It does have couple of things I am not keen on:
- Those multi channels create a lot of turbulence.
- The cut-off tail also adds more drag than I'd like to see.
- It's about 3 pounds heavy - based on what I like to see.

So the Sprint 14x21.5 was plenty stable for me - but does that really mean that a 14x23 with a completely different hull design will be more stable? Not so fast...

A 14x24" SUP with a rounded hull may far more unstable, even more so if you remove tail width and/or nose width. Goes to show that there's more to it than just width to make a board more stable/less stable/faster/slower - and not in any particular order.

Here and again - I have never tried the 14x23 built by Nelo - but it looks plenty technical, with some cool design attributes. I have the perfect body of water, ready for that board and its extensive tests. I also have couple of paddlers all lined up and ready to put that board to the test against their favorite boards. If anything, should be INTERESTING.

[Luc Benac]

I have the perfect body of water, ready for that board and its extensive tests.

Le lac du Bois de Boulogne ou les salines de Guerande?

[Eagle]

When looking at the width of the tail the Nelo looks quite tubby.  Robert did some tests on the weight of the board vs speed.  Kinda remember the speed difference was pretty negligible.  But as noted before -> speed fundamentally depends on the skill of the rider.  Most old intermediates cannot come close to eking out maximum performance of any board.

Instead of being too obsessed with specs would be more concerned with driving increased performance by tuning or turboing the engine.  That for me has been so much more beneficial -> and generated the best gains and most fun for me.  Go for the Sprint 21.5 apples to apples vs the Nelo 23.  Would guess based on my experience no similar fat tail 23 or 24 comes close -> unless you go for that custom sharp pin to pin that is no longer an option for you.

Personally if not the Sprint 21.5 production would go for the custom Robert used or your own spec custom built by Bark.  Bark knows flat water speed design.  Would not expect the Nelo 23 with that fat tail to be as or more efficient than the Sprint 21.5.  But without testing firsthand cannot confirm 100%.  But pretty sure.