Author Topic: Recommended FLAT WATER board  (Read 14132 times)

burchas

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Re: Recommended FLAT WATER board
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2018, 06:22:39 AM »
14x23 - needle nose - "fat" tail - somewhat round hull - ultra low volume - ultra light

I'm wondering why would you go with "fat" tail if you are looking for the most efficient board?

As I understand it, you chose the 14' due to race participation but if buoy turns are not a concern:

needle nose - pintail - recessed deck - rounded hull - ultra low volume - ultra light sounds like a killer combo
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Luc Benac

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Re: Recommended FLAT WATER board
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2018, 07:54:19 AM »
The new Whiplash dugout might be an option there are a few distributors in Europe I believe.

https://www.facebook.com/daveboehneofficial/posts/842264392612407

Wasn't the Mistral Vortex also a good contender in flat water races like 11 City and so on.

Deep Oceans also has an interesting flat water board but doubt that it is available outside Australia for now.
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warmuth

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Re: Recommended FLAT WATER board
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2018, 09:08:58 AM »
No one here to vouch on the efficiency of their dream board, or a board that they have used?

That leaves me with:
- Custom boards
- Nelo boards
- Sprint boards

CUSTOM
Yope, I can see where I would also benefit from a custom rig.
14x23 - needle nose - "fat" tail - somewhat round hull - ultra low volume - ultra light
What's affordable, what is available, and what brand to consider?

NELO
I am seriously leaning on that Nelo board 14x23.
Long lasting - well built - super light - cool looking (dare I say)

SPRINT
I would be leaning far more towards the 2017 than the 2018 - sadly.

Either way, there's a lot of pros and cons to consider. My dream board will be the perfect candidate to train and participate in my dream race - the 11-city Tour (about 200km race in Holland) - in 2018. The problem is that time is running out, so quickly.

In any case, thanks for the feedback. I'll pounder some more.
(the kid in me just wants to have fun)

  In a 200km race you might want to give stability a bit of consideration. I’m fine on a 23 in a 6 mile race but wouldn’t want to do 20 miles on it let alone consecutive days of it.

Eagle

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Re: Recommended FLAT WATER board
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2018, 10:08:49 AM »
If you want max glide and high efficiency get a production 21.5 Sprint like I tested last year in the pics.  That is the right board for pure flat water.  Sleek low volume and light.  But would pass on the higher volume 2018 with filled in tail.

But if stability is truly no concern -> get a custom pin to pin rounded bottom 21 wide for even more potential glide and higher efficiency.  Even tho the 21.5 Sprint was extremely fast -> there was some drag off the squared tail. 

Basically just look at what peeps already raced on in 11 City to see what works for that distance.  Seems the 21.5 Sprint was popular with some racers.  So would try that one first.
Fast is FUN!   8)
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yugi

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Re: Recommended FLAT WATER board
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2018, 11:21:47 AM »
...
Either way, there's a lot of pros and cons to consider. My dream board will be the perfect candidate to train and participate in my dream race - the 11-city Tour (about 200km race in Holland) - in 2018. The problem is that time is running out, so quickly.

In any case, thanks for the feedback. I'll pounder some more.
(the kid in me just wants to have fun)

I was about to ask why 14'. Now I get it.

I can't comment on narrow flat water race boards. I don't have one.

Of the 3 you mention I would pick the one that is stabler so you can go narrower which will be a godsend over the length of long races and training paddles. Again I can't comment from experience but from what I see by observing other racers is the Sprint is stabler so you can go narrower.

Olivia is on 425 now. You might want to ask her opinion.

Luc Benac

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Re: Recommended FLAT WATER board
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2018, 11:43:20 AM »
...
Either way, there's a lot of pros and cons to consider. My dream board will be the perfect candidate to train and participate in my dream race - the 11-city Tour (about 200km race in Holland) - in 2018. The problem is that time is running out, so quickly.

In any case, thanks for the feedback. I'll pounder some more.
(the kid in me just wants to have fun)
Of the 3 you mention I would pick the one that is stabler so you can go narrower which will be a godsend over the length of long races and training paddles. Again I can't comment from experience but from what I see by observing other racers is the Sprint is stabler so you can go narrower.
Olivia is on 425 now. You might want to ask her opinion.

Comments from friends that have done the 11 Cities is that it is anything but flat. They are always surprised as how churny the water gets in this narrow and shallow canals.
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Ripples # Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L
Touring # Ace-GT 17'4" x 27" 313L

Flat water: Black Project Hydro/Blackfish Andaman
Downwind: Kenalu Mana/Blackfish Salish
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Dusk Patrol

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Re: Recommended FLAT WATER board
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2018, 12:14:59 PM »
Robert from Blue Planet had an nice report from his participation in the 11 City Tour, with some board discussion:

https://blueplanetsurf.com/news/sup-11-city-tour-and-paddle-expo-euro-trip-report/
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Eagle

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Re: Recommended FLAT WATER board
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2018, 12:30:00 PM »
"The 14' x 21" Blue Planet dugout race board I was on was a prototype designed for a much younger and lighter team rider and I really struggled on it the first day.   I managed not to fall in but struggled with balance all day in the rough conditions.  On the second day the water was fairly calm after the start and we even had blue skies for much of the day and I finally started to feel comfortable on the tippy and fast board."

Seems if you want a custom -> Robert can get you something.
Fast is FUN!   8)
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FloridaWindSUP

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Re: Recommended FLAT WATER board
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2018, 12:42:42 PM »
That Infinity Whiplash 14x22 Dugout looks AWESOME. Aside from the unusual stepped bottom shape, it reminds me of a custom 14x23 Hovie GT Flatwater that my buddy ordered and then converted to a dugout himself. That was a very fast and light board and (once it was dug out) pretty stable.

NSP 14x22 Ninja looks pretty sweet, too. Almost a pintail. 

Not sure if boards with high rails but low volume because they're deeply dugout would satisfy the "low volume" requirement proposed for the hypothetical ideal flatwater custom. Seems like they would.
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Eagle

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Re: Recommended FLAT WATER board
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2018, 01:14:25 PM »
Aside from the unusual stepped bottom shape, it reminds me of a custom 14x23 Hovie GT Flatwater that my buddy ordered and then converted to a dugout himself. That was a very fast and light board and (once it was dug out) pretty stable.

The volume allocation of the 2017 Sprint 21.5 seemed spot on to me.  Maybe just an inch or so off the water at the tail.  Board felt very balanced and very easy to accelerate to max speed.  Glide was exceptional compared to any other board.  Mike uses that board as a daily driver to coach his racing groms.

Would suspect any board 22 down to 21 is gonna fly with the right pilot.  The variance comes down to how much chop and wash you can handle at race pace over distance.  Robert showed you do not need to be young and a light team rider to go on a 21;)

Fast is FUN!   8)
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Re: Recommended FLAT WATER board
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2018, 01:58:19 PM »
Yeah, anyone who says “stability is not a concern” should probably be going custom. Production boards are built for the 99% of the population who are their customers, not the 1%. That statement is a “1% statement”. Lucky you. You might find the glide you are looking for in a really narrow UL board. 14ft is such a compromised length. But you know all this already.

Sorry to hear that you’ve been ill.

What board brand are you getting???
The last board I bought was a 16ft custom from Grey Paddleboards. And the one before that.

photofr

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Re: Recommended FLAT WATER board
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2018, 11:03:50 PM »
14x23 - needle nose - "fat" tail - somewhat round hull - ultra low volume - ultra light

I'm wondering why would you go with "fat" tail if you are looking for the most efficient board?

As I understand it, you chose the 14' due to race participation but if buoy turns are not a concern:

needle nose - pintail - recessed deck - rounded hull - ultra low volume - ultra light sounds like a killer combo

@Burchas
Just mis-communication from my part.
What I meant is:
Needle nose (piercing board to open the water nicely, and for a super narrow paddle catch)
Still somewhat narrow standing area (again for a narrow catch)
Fattest area (23") just behind my feet - for the added stability
Almost pintail (to close the water nicely - the board will not look like an allstar at the rear - more like an SIC)
Recessed deck (for more stability)
Rounded hull (for more speed - but the 23 / 24" should give me ample stability)
Without the round hull, I could easily go with a 14x20 (with a super flat bottom for example).
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

photofr

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Re: Recommended FLAT WATER board
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2018, 11:28:59 PM »
Yeah, anyone who says “stability is not a concern” should probably be going custom. Production boards are built for the 99% of the population who are their customers, not the 1%. That statement is a “1% statement”. Lucky you. You might find the glide you are looking for in a really narrow UL board. 14ft is such a compromised length. But you know all this already.

Sorry to hear that you’ve been ill.

What board brand are you getting???
The last board I bought was a 16ft custom from Grey Paddleboards. And the one before that.



Thanks for the info.

RECAP:
Seems like there are a few choices out there. I have been looking at what you guys are saying, including quite a few specs, and quite a few boards that may be promising.

FOR MY NEEDS
The 2017 Sprint is too heavy, and does create an “uncomfortable” tail drag. I have already tried it at Lost Mills - although it’s very close to ideal.

The 2018 Sprint is a bit funky - for my needs. I can see where it will handle open water a little bit better, and has gone back to the drawing board for its filled tail. It starting to veer away from my program.

The NSP seems to have super high sidewalls - not so nice for us smaller paddlers, especially for the wind.

The Nelo board is intriguing. There are a lot of pros, including the fact that it’s “ready to be shipped”, and the fact that I am confident about its built quality that I have already seen first hand. The tail does offer similar drag characteristics as the Starboard Sprint - but that’s just judging from a couple of videos. The weight is a huge HUGE bonus though.

The Mistral Vortex is a really good contender as well: it does have the huge sidewalls that I am not exactly too keen on, but it does offer a super light package, a nicer tail release, and narrow front end.

Grey Paddleboards and other custom boards may very well be an answer to my problem.

The odd-ball of the week, after much reading, is the Huki McMannis. It’s actually quite bizarre because it’s like it took all “my” ideas and create the board in my sleep. Interesting stuff, including its lightweight, hollow construction, almost pin-tail, needle nose, water piercing, etc… Finding one in France may just be a real challenge, and asking for a brand new Mold for a single 14x22 or 14x23 board from Huki might prove quite the challenge as well.

Thanks for all the info: biting my lips now, like a little kid about to go to a candy store.
 
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

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Re: Recommended FLAT WATER board
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2018, 12:31:55 AM »
Well, if you are going to go to that level of trouble for a board, why not get a custom from Joe Bark himself?

Or a custom X-series from Mark Raaphorst.

Incidentally, have you tried the SIC RS 14x23 yet?

Part of the problem you face is that most of the leading SUP shapers are ocean people not inland waters people. There aren’t that many well-known truly flat water brands. This may change in time if the ICF get “ownership” of SUP, of course, and brands start developing boards for the Olympic events, which will no doubt be e.g. boring straight line sprints held on rowing lakes etc.

yugi

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Re: Recommended FLAT WATER board
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2018, 02:22:19 AM »
The NSP might have more of a deep footwell than high sidewalls.

Take a look at footage of it ridden in the water (like Travis Grant at GlaGla race - sup racer Facebook has a full video of the race). Riders look much lower than on other dugouts.

Best ask Alain T directly. Or Titou.


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