Author Topic: For those who dislike the slate/hypernut/tommo shape what alternatives are there  (Read 4224 times)

808sup

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Ouch!

rbgar

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That ladies and gentleman was a lovingly beat down

Zooport

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Aloha Mike,
I don't want to change a board design thread into a board construction thread...but, quite frankly, the only "misunderstanding" about the glass job on your Jammer is you thinking that you were gonna get one of our Dom Perignon Champagne quality builds on a Budweiser budget...;-)

We build some of the lightest and strongest boards in the industry...and, we build them here in California, USA using some of the most experienced craftsman around...

http://supsports.com/standup-paddle-boards/california-custom-series/

We offer a variety of constructions...including some that will break your thumb trying to finger dent them...vacuum bagged bamboo ECOBOARDS with Ballis-Tech (ballistic) glass certified by Sustainable Surf...all carbon...carbon hybrids...all S-glass...and, mixtures of the above...so, I don't think that it is fair to continue to denigrate myself, or the glass factory that actually built it to the way you ordered it...and, ignore the reasonable offer to build you a much stronger board than you originally ordered...

You knew that when you hit me up 3 years ago, almost to the day, to build you a Jammer...here's how I remember it going down...

The very first sentence in your email to me stated:

Hey Warren,
I would be interested in the least expensive construction option for the Jammer.  Would that be regular glass?  No deck pad.  FCS Quad, no fins.  I'm a poor teacher with an expensive case of WIS.


My wifey is a public school teacher in Special Education...so, we gave you a "poor teacher" discount, from $1599 to $1399 and a cash discount...then, you haggled some more...

Any cheaper if I forego the fins, leash and go straight blue, no airbrush graphics?   -

Here is my response...

Aloha Mike,
Alrighty then...I gotta be upfront here..our products are very fairly priced...and, we're not getting rich...but, we love what we do...hopefully, you as well...
I'm really not into the price dickering game that others have to play because they are shlepping mass produced merch... that's why I control my own brand...
I'm paying a living wage to good, honest, hard working American surfers to glass most of my boards here locally....
That said...we do have a soft spot in our hearts for good, honest, hard working American teachers around here...;-)
My manager, Al, has a wifey that works in education, also...he grew up life guarding down your way...before he transferred up here to supervise the Gaviota Coast...

So, we'll do this board for you at $1299...we can't go any lower without putting a steeple on our building...;-)


I upgraded your board to Powerline stringer at no cost...you also asked us to install your supplied pad on it for you...which we agreed to...and, I agreed to meet you at a beach somewhere in the 805 to let you demo my 7'5" Jammer...but, you couldn't make it...

My records show that you placed a deposit on 2/8 and that we finished your board on 3/6...you picked it up on 3/7...which is pretty quick turnaround for the surf industry in SoCal...or, anywhere for that matter...it was glassed by Ray Lucke, one of the most experienced glassers in the industry...using only high quality materials...

We provided you pictures all of the way thru the build process...as I have explained to you in other emails...your board's core is top of the line Marko 1.5# density EPS foam with a more expensive Powerline stringer...we used Resin Research's highest grade epoxy by Greg Loehr...there are 3 layers of S-glass (all 6 oz) over the rails in the standing area...6oz. S-Glass has a 40% higher tensile strength and a 20% higher modulus of elasticity compared to E-Glass...etc...

We have several older boards in our rental/demo fleet at the shop built exactly the same way by the same glass shop...paddled hundreds of times...and, they are still holding up...

Regardless, this was a custom surfboard...built on the high performance end of the weight spectrum, with reinforcements in the critical areas...using the best available US manufactured materials, at a SUPer fair price...and, you have stated multiple times that it rips like no other...we hear that from every Jammer rider...

Wardog,
Just wanted to drop you a quick note to tell you how much I love that Jammer. It catches waves great, it literally will do a cutback with a 12″ radius, has great drive and speed, bounces off the lip like a pro board, yet pretty darn stable for a board that is only 7’4.


It is far and away my favorite out of the 11 boards I own and I don’t want to ride any of my others anymore.

Thanks for your brilliant design.

Kind regards,
Mike ****** (AKA Zooport)


After you went immediately went public here, before talking to me, about knocking a fin box out because you rode to close to shore, we offered to fix it...and said that if you are frustrated with the durability, just flip it...& we will build a new one with extra durability in mind...which we are obviously quite capable of...but, you responded that you wanted to keep it...because, it was such an "awesome board"...

http://supsports.com/customer-testimonials/

I have ridden custom surfboards for over 40 years...some lasted longer than others...some ended up as "hall of fame" collectors items...etc...bottom line, I surfed the snot out of them and flipped  them when they started to break down...and, I had the "magic" boards reproduced with heavier glass jobs...funny thing is...most lost that "magic"...thus, my old saying "light is right"...;-)

Anyways...like boards...there are two sides...hopefully, you can move on to your next new favorite board and find that same joy and happiness...STOKE...that the Jammer gave you on the wave face...

Peace out...





Waren, you are a shaping genius.  The board was truly the best surfing board I have ever owned.

Except, you were not honest with me.  I asked you about the glass job, how many layers and how it was going to be done and you answered "enuf" and would not divulge anything further. You never gave me a glassing schedule like you state above I trusted your word, but it was not enough glass.  Fins broke out within a month and I do not abuse my boards.

I did not ride the board too close to shore and it did not hit ground with it.  Yes, you offered to repair it, but you are 3 1/2 hours from me and it would have required two trips or a large sum for shipping.  I wish you had been more forthcoming about your plans to use so little glass and it would not have needed repair.  If I am wrong, please post some communication where you told me you were giving it such a flimsy glass job because I asked for a deal.

If I had known that you were going to give me a fall apart board, and I understand some people want that, I would have kicked in some more money.  You could have said "I can not make you a good board for that price" and I would have said OK.  As it was, you agreed and did not tell me your plans to skimp on glass.  I wish you would have told me your plans.  I feel quite ripped off and would have paid anything you needed if you would have been honest with me.  You should have at least answered me when I asked about the glass job. 

Like I said, the board was one of the best surfing boards I have ever owned.  I know it was just a communication and expectation problem between you and me.  I know for a fact that your other boards are of superior quality and surf great. 

I expect that I will likely be banned for posting this, because the sponsors are the supporters of the Zone, and that's OK.   I have been afraid to post anything until now because of this.   I did not "go public" as you say I did.  I did post a thread asking about thin glass jobs without mentioning SUP Sports in any way.  You then sent me an angry email that included "WTF" and I was intimidated by that. 

I did not mean to start a war of words here and for that, I apologize to everyone, including you, Waren.  I'm done here, you can say whatever you want and I will not reply. 
« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 05:55:57 PM by Zooport »
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SUP Sports ®

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Mike,
You are the only one being dishonest here by repeatedly attacking the workmanship on your surfboard...without any background on what you ordered...and, I proved it with your own words...

Quote
I did not ride the board too close to shore and it did not hit ground with it.

Another provable lie...your exact words...

"I rode it in to shore a little far and very lightly scraped the fin on the sand.  Not hard; very lightly.  Got out of the water and found the finbox was ripped out of the board."

Here was my response...

Aloha Mike,
As a science teacher, you are well aware that we live on a planet that is governed by the universal law of cause and effect...
Fin boxes do not like sideways hydraulic forces...even though that 7'4" Jammer is a relatively small board by SUP proportions...it is a gigantic surfboard...and, surfboards are not built to ride all of the way into the sand with somebody standing on the fin with a downwards or sideways force being exerted...there could have also been damage prior to running it aground from another sesh...

Just because you didn't feel anything happen...doesn't mean that nothing happened...;-)


This is what my friend Ray Lucke said at the time...

"Mystery Dings"?... come on. they don't just happen, bag or not..."very lightly scraping fins over sand" will rip out fins on anything with FCS, as you know- longboards with the 2+1 setup are in here all of the time to replace the sidebite boxes...

Furthermore, even though you claim to be a long time surfer...it was baffling when you assumed that your board was also built with polyester resin...

"That's regular polyester resin on the Jammer, right?"
Love that Jammer; best surf SUP ever.


Regardless, the only reason that I engaged your fabricated crap this time is that my friend, the guy who glassed your board, Ray Lucke, is going in for surgery...and, i'm not gonna let his, or my reputation, be sullied by your "misunderstanding' as you call it...

Dude...get over it...it's a surfboard!
This should have been behind you (and us) 3 years ago after you apologized to me the first time for attacking our integrity...and, you actually said in writing to me that you were dropping it...and, then praised the design again...

Apology, no insult of your integrity intended.  Do to the distance between Newport and SB, I don't think there is a solution to this issue.  If I had been closer to you and could have come by your shop a couple of times during the building process, none of this would have happened.  We could go around and around, so I will let it drop with this: 

The design of my Jammer is fabulous.  It surfs freaking fantastic.  I don't even want to ride any of my 9 other SUPs anymore, it's that good. 


Aloha Mike...
WTF? Now you are accusing me of being dishonest and you don't trust me?!?!
WHOA!!! That is actually insulting my integrity...and, I don't see how that is even remotely justified...where's that coming from?

Seriously, what is it with you having to use public forums to get your questions answered when you can just email me directly?
I don't believe that a forum is not a direct line of communication...
In fact, that forum is only a small iota of my life and time spent on this business...
I hope that you also realize the level of proprietary information involved here...and, who is listening...and, why they are listening...;-)
I mean, what other brand is coughing up that level of info with pics about their board build procedure on a forum?

If you had asked me offline, the question about glass layers...etc...I would have told you exactly what I have told you in these previous  emails...3 layers of 6 oz where you stand with rail wraps...
I showed you with pics the fin box install procedure...tail patch...we gave you multiple pics...etc...I've given you the exact formulation of our resin, foam, stringer...etc...and, with other components of your board build...using only the highest quality materials available...etc...in fact, if you know anything about board building, just about all of the info is there...

I also get over 100 direct emails a day...plus, social media inquiries...etc...so, please don't castigate me if your question isn't answered exactly how you want it to be...when you want it to be...;-)
You can phone or email my staff, for additional info as well...


I would have paid extra to have the board made a little stronger if you had told me how thin the glass job was going to be. 
 
Really? You never once said that...in fact, at every step you wanted to shave expense...no color...no pin lines...no pad...no fins...no leash...no bag...etc...
Nothing wrong with that...totally understand...we get that from time to time...but, that is not a thin glass job you got...in fact, it's better than any surfboard that I own...
Again, we don't have a problem making heavier and stronger boards...or, lighter and stronger, more expensive boards...it just need to be communicated...


I have the board in at a repair shop now because I don't feel confident aligning a fin properly.


I told you that we would help you get it repaired...

Mike, the bottom line is that you can't run fins up on the beach and expect them to not fail...I don't care who makes the board...we do repairs on every brand you can possibly state...
I'm talking surf, sail, and standup boards here...and, I can provide pics if you want to see them...;-)

Bro, go ahead and try the other builders down there for a $1299 board with their 1# foam, 4oz cloth, no vents,  and no stringers...etc...see how long that lasts...actually, you don't need to bother...we see them here all of the time at our repair facility in sad disrepair...Vector net wicking H20...etc...

Regardless, it's not that big of a dealio to bust a fin box out...no worries...it happens...it's a relatively  easy repair...not catastrophic...
Hope you get it repaired and are back on the water soon catching waves...
Sounds like it's gonna be relatively small for the next week or so...

Here's one for you...I hit a partially submerged Redwood log floating in the lineup on a 6'2" thruster, in a 12' barrel at Humboldt North Jetty 30 years ago...now, that was gnarly...;-)

Mahalo

w.....


I'm not going to argue with someone that can't keep their facts straight...doesn't stick to their own words...and, then has the audacity to question my honesty despite the facts otherwise presented, about a board build 3 years ago...then go ahead and knock yourself out...I've got nothing more to say on the matter that hasn't already been said...

Now back to your regularly scheduled program...









Mahalos...{:~)

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Zooport

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Mike,
You are the only one being dishonest here by repeatedly attacking the workmanship on your surfboard...without any background on ...






Despite my disagreement with your statements and my desire to fire back, I am going to stick to my word and let this die.  I apologize for bringing this up at all earlier in this thread.  Big mistake on my part; not an appropriate venue for this discussion and I did not intend for this war to happen.  I'm going to ask Admin to delete my posts.  Don't know if he will.   
« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 07:16:58 PM by Zooport »
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Mmac

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I can relate Zooport, you aren't the only one.  A few years ago I purchased an SUP Sports custom Hammer.  I even paid full price for a custom carbon board.  The board was glassed way too light with what appeared to be only one layer of glassing. The board buckled in small surf the 2nd time I rode it.  I spent a lot of money to have it repaired, then it buckled again in another spot.  I only got a handful of sessions from the board before it went into the dumpster.  I notified Wardog but was only offered a 10% discount on another board purchase, no thanks.  In years of SUP surfing, it has been the only board that I have ever buckled & it buckled twice, definitely a construction issue.

To the Op, try a Jimmy Lewis Super Frank.

jarvissup

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I've ridden a few Grovelers. Infinity Phoenix V2, Simsup S3, Corran Retro. I had the older generation Slate, both the 7'2" and the 7'6". That 7'6" Slate was a very versatile board. I still think it's a good versatile board even though I sold it. It was really good on fat waves and fast. I rode it in some steeper stuff, and though I made it work, it was not ideal. The old JP 7'11" Surf Wide was a better board off the tail than the Slate. The new one is supposed to be better, haven't ridden it, probably won't.
     I was surfing the web and found a board that opened "Pandora's box" and ended up buying and selling and going through a cycle of the "Sup Disease". It was a Flight Malolo, and I bought it used. It's became my favorite groveller and still is. I ended up buying my wife one too, then another of their boards, then another, anyway, you guys probably know the routine. Anyway, that's my favorite small wave board, not a Tomo,it's a Fish. My 8' carbon Malolo is 14lbs 5oz, not much swing weight there.

mrbig

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SMIK Hipster Twin, Infinity RNB, JL Destroyer, King's  Accelerator, JL SF, L 41, Flight Hawaii, and many others.


Let it come to you..
404 Go Go 14'
404 V3 12'6"
Infinity New Deal 9'6"
SMIK Hipster Twin 9'2"
SMIK 8'8" Short Mac Freo Rainbow Bridge
Infinity 8'5" RNB
Infinity 8'5" Blurr V2
King's 8'2" Accelerator SharkBoy

Wetstuff

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Like in a bar (I still remember...) when a couple of guys start waving their d___s, the ladies all go cold ...the potential for a happy ending is lost.

Jim
Sunova Skate XL .. Blue Planet MultiTasker ..   Atlantis Venom

supsean

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I actually think the tomo shape really is awesome on fat waves.

Can I ask what is a fat wave versus a critical wave? I surf in Queens, so I assume that I am surfing on similar waves--I'm just not sure I understand how they are/can be different.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 07:36:41 AM by supsean »
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JEG

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I would add the JL superfrank, it's between a tommo & shortboard.