Author Topic: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?  (Read 30040 times)

Luc Benac

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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #75 on: July 18, 2018, 10:11:43 AM »
And in thinking about other boards that might deliver some of what the V2 delivers, has anyone here tried the F1 Race Pro?

Now that you mention it, I did try Josh Riccio's F1 few days ago on Maliko, while he was
riding my custom. I was surprised how good it felt, but 23.5" was a bit rich for me in these
conditions, would love to test the 25.5 would give me much better feel for the board.
I'll ask him if he can arrange one.

The F1 boards look quite nice and I like the simple graphics. I am less clear about the range. The DW is showing with a pintail (25" and 27" wide) and the FW is showing with a square tail.
The videos show a square tail but also saying that it can handle ocean and so on....The Mistral Equinox is another European board that I would like to try - at least the new wider version :-)
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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #76 on: July 18, 2018, 03:19:41 PM »
I spent quite a bit of time with the 2017 Equinox. It was one of the worst surfing race boards I’ve ever tried. And it could swamp in very choppy conditions. But in virtually every other respect it was really rather good, and if you want an Ace-type board but don’t want the hassles of such an extreme dugout then you should definitely try the Equinox. It is fast, no doubt. For 2018 I think they have attempted to address these issues with more volume and drainage and deck profile changes, and harder rails at the rear.  I don’t know if this has been successful, but if I were a hardcore racer I’d definitely be looking at one, and comparing it to eg. the All Star, SIC RS etc. I was surprised in particular at how fast the 2017 one was in pure flat water. It’s much more than just a choppy-conditions board. Drafts well too, and feels quite Ace-like downwind (but is less technical).

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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #77 on: July 18, 2018, 05:45:58 PM »
Here is a review done a couple years back on the V2.  Agree that the DW dislikes are not much.  If anything for me it would be as noted before -> a bit sluggish on flat and big steep bumps can be a bit challenging.  But then without the 27.25 width you lose some of the DW stability benefits that this board is known for.  For heavy or novice riders a better SIC option is the F14 or F16.

Always horses for courses.  Pros and cons to every single board I have ever paddled.  There is no perfect one quiver board.  Just get whatever floats your boat for your specific purposes.  ;)

https://www.bigwinds.com/sup-blog/2016-Downwind-SUP-Test

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Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

PonoBill

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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #78 on: July 18, 2018, 05:58:27 PM »
The black and white bullet 14's are almost like belly buttons in the Gorge--everyone has one. The Bayonets have a big hurdle to surpass that popularity and suitability. Even I like the Bullet 14V2, and I hate 14's for downwind. I considered getting one with a FAST rudder, but couldn't convince myself to buy yet another 14 that I wouldn't ride.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 06:00:05 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #79 on: July 18, 2018, 09:47:54 PM »
Yep.  Here as well the 14V2 is the most popular board by far.  Most serious DW freaks have one -> and many use it as their one board quiver.  But yes you do need to move about to eke the most out of it.  The narrowed tail was specifically designed for stepping back to lift the nose.  So it is technical that way.  You should not remain stationary on that board.  If you do that board will not play nice -> and you will get dumped.

Whereas the Bullet V1 does handle steep drops much easier.  But the off side is even more sluggish speed on flat.  With a lot more forward splash.  So for me as well -> could use it easily as my one board quiver if could only have one board.  In my estimation you need 27.25 wide in 25-30 kts of breeze up HS way.  ;)
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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #80 on: July 19, 2018, 12:36:06 AM »
Ok, well you are repeating yourself again, so I’ll do the same. In my conditions, the V1 is the better board to have. The gain in flat water speed of the V2 over the V1 is marginal, and similarly with the upwind performance. Then, because the V2 is still a heavily rockered board, it isn’t as fast as something like a Vapor or Maliko in tiny DW conditions. So, the V1 is the better board for us. And the Vapor for instance, does everything that the V2 does, but some things better.

So it’s a shame that the V1 is no longer available. For some, it would have been the better choice. But the current mantra of “flat rocker is faster” is overwhelming. For true DW, I just don’t think it’s true, for most people in many places. At some point we’ll rediscover the delights of lots of rocker for downwinding. Remember the original elf-shoes Naish Glide? That board is crazy fast in the conditions here. The Glide Mk2 is fast too: faster than the subsequent Javelins.

So, I’m keeping the faith for full-on gun-shaped boards for “real” downwinding (ie. 25+ knots and knee-high+ bumps). It’s such a shame that so few people have ever had a chance to try one, so don’t know what they are missing. And many people who have tried them have tried super-heavy DCC SIC boards. But you can make light and agile gun boards - they don’t have to be back-breaking beasts.

But, in terms of the Bullet V2 vs the Bayonet, I agree that the Bayonet is going to have an uphill struggle. These days there are few boards that are stable enough for the average Joe downwinding. The Bullet 14V2 is one of them. It sounds like the Bayonet isn’t. The Bayonet is clearly intended for serious and athletic downwind specialists. That’s a very small demographic indeed. I think Mark R should have made the Bayonet like a slightly narrower version of the Bullet 14v1 instead, more like Jimmy Lewis did with the Rail vs the M14. But maybe the feeling there was that the Rail had already cornered that part of the market. So instead we got a high-floating and tippy board that confuses people as to who it is aimed at. Whereas a more performance-oriented, narrower version of the Sunova Search with high “surfability” would I think appeal to many ocean paddlers and high-wind downwinding folk. Just look at the popularity still of those PSH Hull Paddlers etc. Those kind of do-it-all surfy boards are huge fun for recreational coastal paddlers.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 12:57:35 AM by Area 10 »

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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #81 on: July 19, 2018, 09:04:14 AM »
You are talking about the old carbon V1 that was dropped years ago.  The current TWC version is very heavy and does not perform the same.  So much so the retailer here does not even stock it -> or even have a demo.  He told me you have to pre-pay for a special order.  It is that undesirable he says.

But most that have done DW for years know that boards like the old carbon V1 and M14 perform best in steep ocean waves.  Just that those conditions are not the norm for most.  Mark realized they are inland and need a board that performs in smaller conditions.  Coming up with the V2 was brilliant. 

 The Bayonet sounds a bit floaty from some reviews and seems to have some other complaints.  So probs will not appeal to the masses like the V2 has.
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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #82 on: July 20, 2018, 01:47:36 AM »
Yes of course I was contrasting like for like: SCC V2 with SCC V1.

And many of the SIC boards except the V2 and RS are a bit floaty for round here. You would have thought that after the criticisms of the FX that Mark would have been cautious about this with the Bayonet. But I guess he’s designing for that ultimate last 0.05% in speed, using test riders who are the elite of the elite...

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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #83 on: July 20, 2018, 01:40:44 PM »
But I guess he’s designing for that ultimate last 0.05% in speed, using test riders who are the elite of the elite...

That's actually incorrect. I had a chance to ride some bayonets (14 and 17) belong to the elite of the elite.
they are far from the production board, way lighter and faster but super unstable compared to the production.

Production was stable enough for me for their suggested use case and conditions.
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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #84 on: July 21, 2018, 08:24:12 AM »
But I guess he’s designing for that ultimate last 0.05% in speed, using test riders who are the elite of the elite...

That's actually incorrect. I had a chance to ride some bayonets (14 and 17) belong to the elite of the elite.
they are far from the production board, way lighter and faster but super unstable compared to the production.

Production was stable enough for me for their suggested use case and conditions.
I think maybe you’ve misunderstood what I was saying - which is my fault because it was written ambiguously. I was not saying that the boards were built for elite paddlers, I was saying that they were designed in such a way (super thick rails) in order to squeeze the last 0.05% of speed increase out of the design, because that is the priority for the elite paddler. Us lesser mortals might accept a design with slightly different priorities: the chorus from mere mortals about how floaty the Bayonet is rather supports this. Thick floaty rails are fast, but many people seem not to like them: The Bullet V2 has fairly modest rails and is super-popular, and the RS is less floaty than some other brand’s designs as well, and seems to be garnering a lot of praise.

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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #85 on: July 21, 2018, 12:22:45 PM »
But I guess he’s designing for that ultimate last 0.05% in speed, using test riders who are the elite of the elite...

That's actually incorrect. I had a chance to ride some bayonets (14 and 17) belong to the elite of the elite.
they are far from the production board, way lighter and faster but super unstable compared to the production.

Production was stable enough for me for their suggested use case and conditions.
I think maybe you’ve misunderstood what I was saying - which is my fault because it was written ambiguously. I was not saying that the boards were built for elite paddlers, I was saying that they were designed in such a way (super thick rails) in order to squeeze the last 0.05% of speed increase out of the design, because that is the priority for the elite paddler. Us lesser mortals might accept a design with slightly different priorities: the chorus from mere mortals about how floaty the Bayonet is rather supports this. Thick floaty rails are fast, but many people seem not to like them: The Bullet V2 has fairly modest rails and is super-popular, and the RS is less floaty than some other brand’s designs as well, and seems to be garnering a lot of praise.

These are good points. I'm not a fan of big floaty rails either, quite the opposite but the bayonet
covers a range of conditions where Bullet may feel like too much work which is probably the last
thing most of us want to do on a downwinder.

If I was to live in a place that falls under this category why would I choose a Bullet? In the
conditions the Bayonet is designed for, it feels stable enough and I've been paddling at
water level for the past year so it should give you an indication.
in progress...

Luc Benac

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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #86 on: July 21, 2018, 04:37:52 PM »
I just tried a Rail 14 x 26.5 on a light downwind.
I think that after getting used to Ace and boof noses on my boards, it would be difficult to get back to a heavily rocker-ed board unless on a big day.
Don't get me wrong the Rail is a beautiful board and as far as rocker-ed planing boards there is nothing to go against it.
I just thing that after-all I have found the board that works for me in the Vapor and the grass is not greener elsewhere - at least on a 14' production boards. Show me a 16' Vapor and I might eat my words....

ps: I will be damned. I did not thing that I was going anywhere fast on that light day, but I just had a look at teh GPS data and I was actually doing a good pace....deceiving
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 05:03:21 PM by Luc Benac »
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Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L Andaman 520
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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #87 on: July 22, 2018, 01:49:05 PM »
I wonder if sic would go into dugout oneday?

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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #88 on: July 22, 2018, 10:13:07 PM »
I wonder if sic would go into dugout oneday?

You might see one when Mark will finish his contract with BIC and he is no longer with the
company (unless BIC decides to buy his Flying DutchMan brand to keep him on). As long as he
is making the call it's highly unlikely, you'd have to twist his hand to even do you a custom
dugout board.
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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #89 on: July 22, 2018, 11:31:02 PM »
I wonder if sic would go into dugout oneday?

You might see one when Mark will finish his contract with BIC and he is no longer with the
company (unless BIC decides to buy his Flying DutchMan brand to keep him on). As long as he
is making the call it's highly unlikely, you'd have to twist his hand to even do you a custom
dugout board.
I think maybe Kenny Keneko won in Hong Kong a couple of years ago on a SIC that was close to being a dugout?
https://sicmaui.com/blog/kenny-kaneko-wins-the-hong-kong-international-sup-championship-2016/

 


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