SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?

[Eagle]

Yeah horses for courses.  And everyone is different and has their preferences and use.

This was from the early days using the Dom for UW/DW -> and M14 same but keeping way forward to get max speed on the drop of a little wave.  So excellent that M14.  Stay way forward with the SIC 7.0 and it can catch pretty much anything the V2 can.  Submerging the nose of the M14 to that degree requires a lot of weight forward!  For UW/DW for me it is about riding every wave you can -> as they are always pretty small.

Is all good tho.  To each their own.

[Board Stiff]

I had a Bullet V1 and V2. I sold the V2. Nice board, but it just didn’t work in some of the conditions here. I got a Bark Vapor and it did all that the V2 did, but several things better. The Bullet V1 is however a classic, and I’ve still got it. In the conditions round here, once it gets about 20 knots (which is very often) having lots of rocker makes life much easier and more fun. My custom UL has more rocker than pretty much any production board you’ve ever seen, and is very low volume. It’s so good for these conditions that it’s almost like an unfair advantage.

A10 - what things did you find the Vapor did better than the V2?

[Area 10]

I had a Bullet V1 and V2. I sold the V2. Nice board, but it just didn’t work in some of the conditions here. I got a Bark Vapor and it did all that the V2 did, but several things better. The Bullet V1 is however a classic, and I’ve still got it. In the conditions round here, once it gets about 20 knots (which is very often) having lots of rocker makes life much easier and more fun. My custom UL has more rocker than pretty much any production board you’ve ever seen, and is very low volume. It’s so good for these conditions that it’s almost like an unfair advantage.

A10 - what things did you find the Vapor did better than the V2?

1. The Vapor is a little faster in flat water.

2. It also copes with steep short-period downwind ocean better (actually, is faster in tiny downwind as well). The difficulty with the V2 in the conditions here to do with the combination of a fairly low volume tail and the volume and rocker distribution. The low volume tail means that you have to go forward a long way to catch the bump, but if you do, there is a fairly wide area and plenty of rocker for you to push, but not so much rocker and volume that it will boof and save you if you get it wrong. Basically, you are kinda caught between two stools. What tends to work better here - where the best bumps are created by wind in opposition to a fairly strong tidal current, creating steep and peaky bumps that are hard to get into for their size - is either a wider tail that lifts the board early and then a fairly flat rocker mid-section (like the Vapor), or else a full-on heavily rockered gunny shape where you can stand well forward to catch the bump but there is plenty of rocker to save you from pearling as you get back to carve.

To cut a long story short, the V2 is an interesting compromise design, and that design works well for some conditions. But my DW conditions don’t suit compromise designs very well.

The Vapor is therefore more versatile, for me. The only thing that the V2 does better is surf: although the Vapor isn’t bad at that, it’s just that the V2 is really quite good for a 14 in surf. The Vapor is also as stable as the V2, pretty much, but is narrower, which is handy.

The V2 is however usefully lighter and has the lovely SIC handle. The V2 also looks better!

[Board Stiff]

1. The Vapor is a little faster in flat water.

2. It also copes with steep short-period downwind ocean better (actually, is faster in tiny downwind as well). The difficulty with the V2 in the conditions here to do with the combination of a fairly low volume tail and the volume and rocker distribution. The low volume tail means that you have to go forward a long way to catch the bump, but if you do, there is a fairly wide area and plenty of rocker for you to push, but not so much rocker and volume that it will boof and save you if you get it wrong. Basically, you are kinda caught between two stools. What tends to work better here - where the best bumps are created by wind in opposition to a fairly strong tidal current, creating steep and peaky bumps that are hard to get into for their size - is either a wider tail that lifts the board early and then a fairly flat rocker mid-section (like the Vapor), or else a full-on heavily rockered gunny shape where you can stand well forward to catch the bump but there is plenty of rocker to save you from pearling as you get back to carve.

To cut a long story short, the V2 is an interesting compromise design, and that design works well for some conditions. But my DW conditions don’t suit compromise designs very well.

The Vapor is therefore more versatile, for me. The only thing that the V2 does better is surf: although the Vapor isn’t bad at that, it’s just that the V2 is really quite good for a 14 in surf. The Vapor is also as stable as the V2, pretty much, but is narrower, which is handy.

The V2 is however usefully lighter and has the lovely SIC handle. The V2 also looks better!

Thanks for the info. The Vapor sounds like a great board for a wide variety of conditions. I was interested in that board for a while but just couldn't find them around here at a good price. I actually think the Vapor looks nicer than the V2, though nothing beats that SIC handle. Makes their boards feel several pounds lighter than they would with a typical ledge handle.

How do they compare in terms of stability (aside from the difference when catching a bump that you mentioned)? Is the Vapor noticeably less stable in choppy conditions, with an inch less width and quite a bit less volume?

[warmuth]

  While I realize you’re asking about a direct comparison and I have no experience with a V2 I will say the vapor is ridiculously stable. It will handle some truly nasty conditions. Other than flat water speed I don’t think that board really has a weakness. Could be lighter, could pressure ding a bit less readily but that doesn’t really have anything to do with it’s capabilities.

[Eagle]

This guy did a direct comparison of the V2 vs the Vapor.  Seems that every board will have a slightly diff set of pros and cons depending on the pilot and conditions.  To me the V2 is a stable dedicated DW board whereas the Vapor is more AW and better on the flats.  So just depends what qualities you are looking for.

"It’s almost squirrely. It’s almost twitchy. It feels really wobbly. But somehow it’s still cool and has a ton of stability. It doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense."

"When I first turned around, the swells were a pretty good size, but I was having a terrible time getting on them. This is supposed to be a really good downwind board, but it didn’t approach the ease of which the Bullet picks up the bumps. So that’s definitely an area to work on."

http://neverboredinc.com/bark-vapor-ghost-126-test-drive/

[warmuth]

"It’s almost squirrely. It’s almost twitchy. It feels really wobbly. But somehow it’s still cool and has a ton of stability. It doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense."



http://neverboredinc.com/bark-vapor-ghost-126-test-drive/

  I'd say that's a pretty accurate first impression of it. The real magic is that it just never really feels that way once things get festive, it really doesn't make sense.

[Luc Benac]

The real magic is that it just never really feels that way once things get festive, it really doesn't make sense.

The worst the chop the better it feels (almost there must be a point of no return). Lower your stance and keep digging and the board just keep going. It is a big advantage when you have to go across chop/wind to get to for exemple the entrance of a channel. The only thing I noticed is that if you use a fin with a very wide base and relatively short, you loose that advantage on a steep board wake and it feels almost like the fin is suddenly tripping you over. Unless conditions are getting big, keep a small fin, it just works better.

[Area 10]

1. The Vapor is a little faster in flat water.

2. It also copes with steep short-period downwind ocean better (actually, is faster in tiny downwind as well). The difficulty with the V2 in the conditions here to do with the combination of a fairly low volume tail and the volume and rocker distribution. The low volume tail means that you have to go forward a long way to catch the bump, but if you do, there is a fairly wide area and plenty of rocker for you to push, but not so much rocker and volume that it will boof and save you if you get it wrong. Basically, you are kinda caught between two stools. What tends to work better here - where the best bumps are created by wind in opposition to a fairly strong tidal current, creating steep and peaky bumps that are hard to get into for their size - is either a wider tail that lifts the board early and then a fairly flat rocker mid-section (like the Vapor), or else a full-on heavily rockered gunny shape where you can stand well forward to catch the bump but there is plenty of rocker to save you from pearling as you get back to carve.

To cut a long story short, the V2 is an interesting compromise design, and that design works well for some conditions. But my DW conditions don’t suit compromise designs very well.

The Vapor is therefore more versatile, for me. The only thing that the V2 does better is surf: although the Vapor isn’t bad at that, it’s just that the V2 is really quite good for a 14 in surf. The Vapor is also as stable as the V2, pretty much, but is narrower, which is handy.

The V2 is however usefully lighter and has the lovely SIC handle. The V2 also looks better!

Thanks for the info. The Vapor sounds like a great board for a wide variety of conditions. I was interested in that board for a while but just couldn't find them around here at a good price. I actually think the Vapor looks nicer than the V2, though nothing beats that SIC handle. Makes their boards feel several pounds lighter than they would with a typical ledge handle.

How do they compare in terms of stability (aside from the difference when catching a bump that you mentioned)? Is the Vapor noticeably less stable in choppy conditions, with an inch less width and quite a bit less volume?

No, the Vapor and Bullet V2 are very similar in terms of stability. The wide rail of the Vapor and lowered standing position make it very stable and easy for a 26.

[Area 10]

This guy did a direct comparison of the V2 vs the Vapor.  Seems that every board will have a slightly diff set of pros and cons depending on the pilot and conditions.  To me the V2 is a stable dedicated DW board whereas the Vapor is more AW and better on the flats.  So just depends what qualities you are looking for.

"It’s almost squirrely. It’s almost twitchy. It feels really wobbly. But somehow it’s still cool and has a ton of stability. It doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense."

"When I first turned around, the swells were a pretty good size, but I was having a terrible time getting on them. This is supposed to be a really good downwind board, but it didn’t approach the ease of which the Bullet picks up the bumps. So that’s definitely an area to work on."

http://neverboredinc.com/bark-vapor-ghost-126-test-drive/

You’ve used a selective couple of quotes which do not give an accurate impression either of the review or of the board, IMO.

Try a Vapor for yourself back to back with a V2. It’s no good speculating about the relative differences unless you’ve had substantial experience of both, in the same conditions. I’ve spent 2-3 yrs+ with both boards, in a huge variety of conditions. Both very good boards, and quite similar in their aims IMO.

Bear in mind also that the review you quote is about the 12-6 versions of the boards. The 12-6 Bullet is has a very specific and loyal following (probably well-deserved) whose intended uses tend not to be the quite the same as those who buy 14s. There are many designs that work better either as a 12-6 or 14. Some work as both, but you can’t assume equivalence. An obvious case in point is some past iterations of the Falcon, which have been pretty good in a 14 but IMO actually quite dreadful as a 12-6.

But anyone who says that the 14 Vapor is tippy or twitchy needs their head examining, basically, or is used to paddling barges. There are certainly a couple of things you might question about the Vapor (weight being one of them, and some Surftech boards recently have been indifferent in terms of construction; it is also not as fast in pure flat water as eg. a Maliko or All Star) but instability or trickiness or wobbliness in difficult conditions is absolutely *not* one of them. That’s just wrong tbh, at least in regard to the 14. It is more stable than the 2018 14x26 Maliko, for instance, and a lot easier when quartering wind and swell.

[Luc Benac]

On very small bumps and light wind, the Vapor requires to be standing quite forward and to keep the waterline engaged and it starts taking-off. When the nose pearl a slight adjustment of the weight and the glide keeps going. I am wondering if this is the same for the 12.6 and maybe why the reviewer did not get the bumps if staying too far back.

[Eagle]

He said "As the conditions calmed down and the bumps got smaller, I was actually able to pick them up easily.  The board was really comfortable the whole time even with all of that holding on.

All in all it was a really interesting ride. It was one of the more challenging outings I have been on in recent years.   It will definitely take more time out there to dial it in, but this board has lots of fun adventures potential!"

That is why the link was posted as well -> to give context.  Point was that everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  It was simply a person reviewing the V2 vs the Vapor.  Just take it for what it is.

[Area 10]

He said "As the conditions calmed down and the bumps got smaller, I was actually able to pick them up easily.  The board was really comfortable the whole time even with all of that holding on.

All in all it was a really interesting ride. It was one of the more challenging outings I have been on in recent years.   It will definitely take more time out there to dial it in, but this board has lots of fun adventures potential!"

That is why the link was posted as well -> to give context.  Point was that everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  It was simply a person reviewing the V2 vs the Vapor.  Just take it for what it is.

Try a Vapor, Eagle. Then you’ll be in a position to judge for yourself. You are getting a very consistent opinion about the Vapor from the contributors to this forum, and I’ll amazed if you don’t find them to be accurate. It’s not a difficult board to judge or understand - like the V2, it’s very easy and comfortable to use, and not at all technical or challenging.

And in thinking about other boards that might deliver some of what the V2 delivers, has anyone here tried the F1 Race Pro?

[burchas]

And in thinking about other boards that might deliver some of what the V2 delivers, has anyone here tried the F1 Race Pro?

Now that you mention it, I did try Josh Riccio's F1 few days ago on Maliko, while he was
riding my custom. I was surprised how good it felt, but 23.5" was a bit rich for me in these
conditions, would love to test the 25.5 would give me much better feel for the board.
I'll ask him if he can arrange one.

[Eagle]

Pretty sure the Vapor is a very easy board to understand.  As well very easy and comfortable to use, and not at all technical or challenging.