Author Topic: A "clog-like" iSUP ?  (Read 4941 times)

connector14

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A "clog-like" iSUP ?
« on: January 05, 2018, 10:04:44 AM »
Is there any reason why an iSUP could not be designed with a much lowered standing area similar to what some of these new "clogs" are like?  My Red Paddle Elite is a nice board,  but very "tippy" when the going gets rough. Just seems like it would be much better if I wasn't standing so high off the water. If inflatable kayaks can be done,  why not an SUP with some variety of deck shapes? Do you think there would be enough appeal for more sophisticated iSUPs patterned after some of the better current SUP designs?
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deepmud

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Re: A "clog-like" iSUP ?
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2018, 09:41:15 AM »
I think multi-chambered isups should be tried out - I think it's possible Red might even make the first attempt, they are at least experimenting a bit.

Beaner brought up similar points in this thread awhile back....

https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,27311.0.html

There is a sea-eagle inflatable kayak just needs to be tapered to the back to let it pour out water and it's a "clog" - it already comes with a (crappy) fin mount....



Your feet are 1/2 the distance from the water (3" floor vs 6") but over all rigidity would be high due to the vertical sides.

I'm tempted to sell all my hard kayaks and get one and just try it as a SUP.

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Re: A "clog-like" iSUP ?
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2018, 10:08:04 AM »
How would you get the standing area rigid enough if it were to be so thin? With a kayak the seat spreads the load over a bigger area than your feet would when standing, plus some weight in a Kayak is carried by your feet. You donít want the standing area flexing wildly every time you take a stroke. Maybe you could use a system of battens or similar, and/or have an installable hard area to stand on to spread the load. But whatever, I suspect that this issue, plus the fact that an iSUP clog would weathervane wildly in even the slightest wind/chop without help from a complex fin arrangement, might be why we havenít seen an inflatable version of the Ace etc yet.

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Re: A "clog-like" iSUP ?
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2018, 10:14:06 AM »
How would you get the standing area rigid enough if it were to be so thin? With a kayak the seat spreads the load over a bigger area than your feet would when standing, plus some weight in a Kayak is carried by your feet. You donít want the standing area flexing wildly every time you take a stroke. Maybe you could use a system of battens or similar, and/or have an installable hard area to stand on to spread the load. But whatever, I suspect that this issue, plus the fact that an iSUP clog would weathervane wildly in even the slightest wind/chop without help from a complex fin arrangement, might be why we havenít seen an inflatable version of the Ace etc yet.

This, and Starboard has double chamber boards across almost all their Deluxe models for 2018.

https://greenwatersports.com/shop/brand/starboard
Julian
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Red Paddle Co, Starboard, Naish, Fanatic, K-Pump, Accent Paddles, Ke Nalu, Dakine, Onyx, FCS, Vamo

deepmud

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Re: A "clog-like" iSUP ?
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2018, 10:40:45 AM »
How would you get the standing area rigid enough if it were to be so thin? With a kayak the seat spreads the load over a bigger area than your feet would when standing, plus some weight in a Kayak is carried by your feet. You donít want the standing area flexing wildly every time you take a stroke. Maybe you could use a system of battens or similar, and/or have an installable hard area to stand on to spread the load. But whatever, I suspect that this issue, plus the fact that an iSUP clog would weathervane wildly in even the slightest wind/chop without help from a complex fin arrangement, might be why we havenít seen an inflatable version of the Ace etc yet.

I'd be surprised that it would flex more. It's supported by the vertical sides fore-aft - and it's the same PSI at the 4" and 6" boards, the flooring should be as stiff under your toes.  Your feet would be close to the sides as well - again, supported by the vertical material.

As for weathervane - this should be true of all clogs/canoe shapes, not just the Isup version? It's true a higher surface area is a big problem - my 8" thick Xplorer is VERY difficult to paddle upwind - but it also is partly due to a standing person is a pretty good sail, regardless of the vessel he's standing on.

No worse than this:


deepmud

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Re: A "clog-like" iSUP ?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2018, 10:54:30 AM »
How would you get the standing area rigid enough if it were to be so thin? With a kayak the seat spreads the load over a bigger area than your feet would when standing, plus some weight in a Kayak is carried by your feet. You donít want the standing area flexing wildly every time you take a stroke. Maybe you could use a system of battens or similar, and/or have an installable hard area to stand on to spread the load. But whatever, I suspect that this issue, plus the fact that an iSUP clog would weathervane wildly in even the slightest wind/chop without help from a complex fin arrangement, might be why we havenít seen an inflatable version of the Ace etc yet.

This, and Starboard has double chamber boards across almost all their Deluxe models for 2018.

https://greenwatersports.com/shop/brand/starboard

Looks like a great feature - more rigidity, more safety. Doesn't appear enough to sit and paddle to shore on with a large tear in the main chamber, but having enough to hold on to. It would make it still a "boat" you could sit on with very little air still in main chamber - 1 psi would just fold up around you in a normal Isup but with that I-beam in there, you could sit on it and paddle it pretty well. Very nice.



So - back to connector14's original idea - what about making that inner chamber lower/thinner so you are closer to the water?

connector14

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Re: A "clog-like" iSUP ?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2018, 10:54:46 AM »
If there were seperate air chambers designed sort of like I-beams under the standing area (and if they pumped to say 25 psi) it could be pretty stiff. And the overall height of the sidewalls doesn't need to be really tall does it?
As to additional stiffness,  I am eager to hear what Julian has to say about the new Starboard Airline models when he gets ahold of one for testing !!
"never leave the dock without your paddle"
Imagine Rocket 14 ...my new favorite, smooth and fast and lite
2018 Red Paddle 14 x 27 Elite
2014 Bark Dominator 14....smooth and quiet
2014 Imagine Connector 14...the "barge"

deepmud

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Re: A "clog-like" iSUP ?
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2018, 10:58:08 AM »
Doesn't look too much different than the hard version....



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Re: A "clog-like" iSUP ?
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2018, 11:02:24 AM »
They could run a 4Ē inner platform mated to a 6Ē side and nose area. The I-beams between would aid stiffness but paddler weight is still only on a 4Ē deck. All the weight is in your feet so perhaps they could use thicker strips under the standing area, like what they have done in the 2018 Zens. Adding longer, larger dual chamber areas will add weight though...

Airline, looking forward to testing. Feedback so far has been very good. Comparable to the Red FFC system, since it works the towards the same goal but approaching solution for opposite angle. Tension on the line rather than compression on the rod.
Julian
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connector14

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Re: A "clog-like" iSUP ?
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2018, 11:15:38 AM »
I am also thinking that the line running straight down the bottom might also aid in tracking too ? 
"never leave the dock without your paddle"
Imagine Rocket 14 ...my new favorite, smooth and fast and lite
2018 Red Paddle 14 x 27 Elite
2014 Bark Dominator 14....smooth and quiet
2014 Imagine Connector 14...the "barge"

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Re: A "clog-like" iSUP ?
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2018, 11:19:23 AM »
Hadnít thought of that, they are hiding the line well, but yes it would add a little traction there.
Julian
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2Rivers

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Re: A "clog-like" iSUP ?
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2018, 03:25:58 PM »
How would you get the standing area rigid enough if it were to be so thin?
You donít want the standing area flexing wildly every time you take a stroke. Maybe you could use a system of battens or similar, and/or have an installable hard area to stand on to spread the load.
Riot (formally Corran) has a whitewater specific model called the Combat that's a "clog-like" design. It uses an inflatable "boogieboard" for the standing area to add rigidity and support. If this concept could be made into a touring or racing application, they (or somebody else) could be onto something.
http://riotsups.com/combat/
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 03:51:22 PM by 2Rivers »
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ukgm

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Re: A "clog-like" iSUP ?
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2018, 01:37:09 AM »
How would you get the standing area rigid enough if it were to be so thin? With a kayak the seat spreads the load over a bigger area than your feet would when standing, plus some weight in a Kayak is carried by your feet. You donít want the standing area flexing wildly every time you take a stroke. Maybe you could use a system of battens or similar, and/or have an installable hard area to stand on to spread the load. But whatever, I suspect that this issue, plus the fact that an iSUP clog would weathervane wildly in even the slightest wind/chop without help from a complex fin arrangement, might be why we havenít seen an inflatable version of the Ace etc yet.

This, and Starboard has double chamber boards across almost all their Deluxe models for 2018.

https://greenwatersports.com/shop/brand/starboard

Its worth looking at Mistrals or Steve Wests facebook page for this week to see the prototypes of their new inflatable race boards with multiple chambers.

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Re: A "clog-like" iSUP ?
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2018, 03:44:57 AM »
The Mistrals do look interesting, and itís useful that they havenít gone for a full clog design IMO. Combining clog designs with inflatables could lead to my least favourite ever type of SUP :)