Author Topic: Whats the matter with Surf Shapes with +4.5 thickness?  (Read 5513 times)

NorthJerzSurfer

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Whats the matter with Surf Shapes with +4.5 thickness?
« on: December 17, 2017, 06:25:05 PM »
Hey Guys-

So I have been trying to model out a design for a Summer Waist high and under groveler.  Because my waves- even when small- aren't fat- they tend to break and speed down the line- getting in early is key.- Plus im backside on all my local breaks - which always adds a split second of takeoff time to adjust.

I had a 7'10 x 30 x 4.75 last summer which was the thickest board I EVER rode.  It wasnt perfect but was amazed how much i liked it on small waves even with a thickness that would never work on larger waves.

I haven't seen any companies that are willing to go very thick and very short?  Im 210-215 lbs so in winter gear i need 115-120 volume .

Any one have any designs for the above mentioned waves that keep board length short- thickness high (maybe with step rails) and a fast relative glider for small waves?

Anon's designs (scaled up) are really really interesting.  There has to be 200+ lbs who want shortboard lengths that still float them without a struggle.  (FYI I have a 106l hypernut - i LOVE but its just not enough liters on Waist high minus at my weight- i sit inside where I drop on my 6'10 shortboard...)


surfcowboy

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Re: Whats the matter with Surf Shapes with +4.5 thickness?
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2017, 06:27:44 PM »
I think the big companies need to try to straddle the middle of the road. So all their boards are too thick for me and too thin for you.

Customs are the jam really. I don't know a lot about thickness but I'd say whatever you can sink a rail on is right.

NorthJerzSurfer

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Re: Whats the matter with Surf Shapes with +4.5 thickness?
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2017, 06:35:04 PM »
I think the big companies need to try to straddle the middle of the road. So all their boards are too thick for me and too thin for you.

Customs are the jam really. I don't know a lot about thickness but I'd say whatever
you can sink a rail on is right.

Totally agree SC. just trying to figure out what advanced suppers are moving to short boards with much more thickness.  The whole sit my whole session - pop up and paddle like hell because my board doesnt float isnt attractive to me- at that point its just surfing.

so what boards allow for that fun paddle around the lineup- get from place to place- with acceptabe volume- but can hack a few cutbacks on waves ?

i know this shape isn't common on production boards- trying to understand the drawbacks from having 4.75+ thickness on a board this small.  Does the fat rail make it slow? does it need a monoconcave?  Should it be more parallel? etc

surfafrica

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Re: Whats the matter with Surf Shapes with +4.5 thickness?
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2017, 10:28:12 PM »
Kirk @ L41 has done some short & thick ones (esp with his step rails). For more performance, he has the Pop Dart and Bruce Wayne.
50 years old, 5'7", 150 lbs, intermediate
Infinity RNB: 7'6 x 28, 95 L https://goo.gl/SqlWR4
Kronos LB: 8'10 x 26.5, 84 L https://goo.gl/4iQdps
Kronos Nano: 7'4 x 26, 81 L https://goo.gl/kAM8W6

Badger

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Re: Whats the matter with Surf Shapes with +4.5 thickness?
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2017, 10:30:52 PM »
My JL Super Frank 7'6 x 31" is 4.4" thick with a mono to double concave. I've paddled it over a mile up and down the beach a couple times without any difficulty. I love how it surfs. Very fast even on slow mushy waves.

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Kalama E3 6'1 x 23" 105L
Axis HPS 980 / PNG 1300
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Me - 6'0" - 165lbs - 66yo

anonsurfer

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Re: Whats the matter with Surf Shapes with +4.5 thickness?
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2017, 08:31:28 AM »
Any one have any designs for the above mentioned waves that keep board length short- thickness high (maybe with step rails) and a fast relative glider for small waves?

How short do you want to go and what would be the max width you would want?    If this is for summer do want to come down from your winter volume of 120L or keep the volume around 120L?

Once I have this info I can suggest a few shapes.

   
Home Break: Doheny
Tic Tac v3 (Hoglet): 6' 6" x 23" x 3.6" x 67L
Omni: 6' 9" x 23" x 3.75" x 68L
Tic Tac (OG): 7' 0" x 22.75" x 3.5" x 70L
In The Pink (Incoming): 8' 0" x 22.9" x 3.25" x 70L

Blackproject Surge S77 (Soft Flex Shaft, T-Grip, +0" OH)

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Re: Whats the matter with Surf Shapes with +4.5 thickness?
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2017, 10:42:49 AM »
Aloha NJS,
We often build boards over 4.5" thickness to get a desired volume for our clients at a specific length and width...

This is a SUPer easy problem to solve...

Based on your surfing venue and your weight/ability...from my board designs, I would recommend a Jammer with stepped rails...

https://youtu.be/sz6GCHMcoEg

Very shortboard oriented...fast and stable...turns on a dime...extremely responsive...the more you pump...the faster you go...

http://blog.surfingsports.com/jammer-sup

Very fast down the line...I easily catch up to more conventionally shaped SUPs...

https://youtu.be/EkDStExEhig

Playing around on CAD for grins and giggles, I came up with a 7'2" x 29" x 4.6" @ 121.63 liters...obviously, it can be tweaked to whatever dims that you had in mind...
we built Aryeh a 6'7" x 27" x 3.9" Jammer at 88 liters...and, we recently built a couple of Jammers for some guys up in Canada...a 7'10" x 30" x 4.3" @ 129.33 liters for Hank...and, a 7'10" x 31" x 4.55" @ 140.82 liters for Fred...



Mahalos...{:~)

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NorthJerzSurfer

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Re: Whats the matter with Surf Shapes with +4.5 thickness?
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2017, 06:32:51 PM »
Any one have any designs for the above mentioned waves that keep board length short- thickness high (maybe with step rails) and a fast relative glider for small waves?

How short do you want to go and what would be the max width you would want?    If this is for summer do want to come down from your winter volume of 120L or keep the volume around 120L?

Once I have this info I can suggest a few shapes.

 


Thanks Anon.

I'd probably want to stay 29.5 or 30 for a more tomo squared off shape.

I'd look to 30-30.75  on a more traditional shape (ie Wardog's Jammer)

Thinking being it will at least turn a little from the middle  if i need it to that way- and will stabilize the surf shape without adding unnecessary width to the Tomo (Like the raptor- waaay too wide for anything in my mind)

I think 7-7'4 would be ideal knowing I can use the 7'4 Hypernut- but if it had another .5 of thickness would probably hit 115-120 easily.

After owning the hypernut- id rather err on the side of more volume than less.   I have exited the 'race to the bottom' for volume. - Especially in small waves with little push and momentum.

 I had an extended loan on a 'sinker' 106 liter surf shape and it made sup no longer fun under head high.  At that point i'd surf.


NorthJerzSurfer

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Re: Whats the matter with Surf Shapes with +4.5 thickness?
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2017, 06:35:55 PM »
Aloha NJS,
We often build boards over 4.5" thickness to get a desired volume for our clients at a specific length and width...

This is a SUPer easy problem to solve...

Based on your surfing venue and your weight/ability...from my board designs, I would recommend a Jammer with stepped rails...



Thanks Wardog- definetly getting near a solution- i like how the Jammer buries the volume but has the step rails.  also probably maintains its wave catching with the wide 'bum'

anonsurfer

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Re: Whats the matter with Surf Shapes with +4.5 thickness?
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2017, 05:23:30 AM »
I'd probably want to stay 29.5 or 30 for a more tomo squared off shape.

I'd look to 30-30.75  on a more traditional shape (ie Wardog's Jammer)

I think 7-7'4 would be ideal knowing I can use the 7'4 Hypernut- but if it had another .5 of thickness would probably hit 115-120 easily.

Your biggest challenge will be to find a shape that packs in the volume you want without being too wide in the tail. 

Tomo Evo
---
A Tomo Evo shape at 7-4 x 30 x 4.5 would have 115L but would be 22.8" wide @ T+12".  This is too wide in my opinion.

Couch Potato
---
The ...lost Couch Potato would be a good candidate.  It has a lot of surface area while still keeping the tail somewhat pulled in.   A 7-4 x 30 x 4.5 Couch Potato would have 115L and a T+12" of 21.2".  You could widen up and square off the nose for a little extra volume and end up with something very similar to the Hyper Nut (see below).

Omni
---
A 7-4 x 30 x 4.5 Omni would have 113L and a T+12" of 21.2".  This would be a good choice, especially if you decide you can go a little longer and narrower (7-6 x 29 x 4.5 x 113L).


Greedy Beaver
---
My pick would be a Greedy Beaver shape.  A 7-4 x 30 x 4.5 would have 115L and a T+12" of 19.7".   I'd recommend it a little longer and narrower though, a 7-7 x 29 x 4.5 Greedy Beaver would have 115L and a T+12" of 18.8".   I think you would really appreciate the narrower tail in steeper surf. 







Home Break: Doheny
Tic Tac v3 (Hoglet): 6' 6" x 23" x 3.6" x 67L
Omni: 6' 9" x 23" x 3.75" x 68L
Tic Tac (OG): 7' 0" x 22.75" x 3.5" x 70L
In The Pink (Incoming): 8' 0" x 22.9" x 3.25" x 70L

Blackproject Surge S77 (Soft Flex Shaft, T-Grip, +0" OH)

SUP Sports ®

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Re: Whats the matter with Surf Shapes with +4.5 thickness?
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2017, 02:56:17 PM »
Aloha NJS,
We often build boards over 4.5" thickness to get a desired volume for our clients at a specific length and width...

This is a SUPer easy problem to solve...

Based on your surfing venue and your weight/ability...from my board designs, I would recommend a Jammer with stepped rails...



Thanks Wardog- definetly getting near a solution- i like how the Jammer buries the volume but has the step rails.  also probably maintains its wave catching with the wide 'bum'

Aloha NJS,
The Jammer is the fastest SUP that I personally have ever ridden...surfers that grew up riding short Fish shapes...Lazor Zaps...etc...and, love to surf rail to rail...really like it...definitely, not a board that you just stand there like an Egyptian statue...;-)

I also have several other shapes that could work for you and your conditions...

Fortuitously, I have a client named Scott down in LA, who is a good shortboard surfer...that I've worked up a tweaked WD model for that is right in your volume range and application specs...I'm calling it the WD Gyro...the rocker profile got lowered a bit to increase speed and drive while it gets pumped...and, also squashed the tail so he can throw it around a bit more in smaller surf...

http://supsports.com/standup-paddle-boards/wd-series-sup/

This is a 3D CAD rendering of an 8'4" x 29.5" x 4.25" @ 118.87 liters...but, we ended up taking it down to an 8'2" x 29.5" x 4.25" @ 116.6 liters...

https://youtu.be/30-c0g4vG9g

December 1, 2017
Hey Warren, You sold me a bulletproof Kevlar board a few months back and it has been amazing.
The board is by far the best board I have ever owned – insane. Not a single ding.
This board is perfect for 3 foot plus waves – an 8’6” 118 Liter pintail – it handles like a dream in bumpy and shitty conditions and/or medium to bigger waves.
In fact, I’m so happy with the board you already made me – I want to order a new board!
Please help me achieve my goal of going faster and having more wow factor on maneuvers for small waves.

Scott B - Los Angeles, CA


We've also heard from Mike up in Maine who was stoked with his high performance American made 7'11" x 29.5" x 4.5" @ 119.81 liters WD Ripper...

October 6, 2017
Hey Ian / Wardog….

Just wanted to drop you a note and let you know the 7’11 board you made for me has been ripping it up across New England….
Love it. 
Here are a few pics from after that last hurricane swell…. 

Thanks, Mike S - Maine


My shorter sub-8' Hammer and Mallet models are also ridden by guys over 200#...

http://supsports.com/standup-paddle-boards/hammer-series

http://blog.surfingsports.com/2015/01/mallet-sup-2.html

https://youtu.be/DAQQzbIQOMQ
Mahalos...{:~)

WARDOG ®
Owner/CEO  StandUp Paddle Sports®  &   SurfingSports®.com, Inc.

(805)962-SUPS (7877) store
(888)805-9978 toll free

Retail Store:
Standup Paddle Sports, LLC
121 Santa Barbara St.
Santa Barbara, CA 93101

NorthJerzSurfer

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Re: Whats the matter with Surf Shapes with +4.5 thickness?
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2017, 06:48:03 PM »
Anon and Wardog- Sorry for the late reply- but trully appreciate the AWESOME responses.  So much to think about

 I am fiddling with Shape 3d and going to decide what to do in a few months prior to summer so I can get something shaped- and hopefully be a few boards and lbs lighter by then (I chunk up worst than most over the holiday with a double whammy of super long work hours and family prior to year end)

....and its been horribly flat in NJ in Dec!



 


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