Author Topic: River Foil Surf  (Read 7965 times)

Sam the Surfer

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Re: River Foil Surf
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2018, 06:08:06 PM »
Rode a light 6' 3" board from Hydrus named the "Chimi" and the King's Foil wings. 21 degrees outside on the Spokane River, it was flowing 14,000 cfs and we surfed the Duplex Wave. There is so much potential in finding more river waves to foil surf!!



Have fun and keep charging!

« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 06:12:38 PM by Sam the Surfer »

PonoBill

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Re: River Foil Surf
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2018, 06:24:13 PM »
Man, that looks so hard, but once you get it, you'll make it looks easy and sucker in a bunch of idiots like me. I'm still seeing position problems, your back foot looks to be too far back, when the foil lifts you can't control it.

I'd use stick-on foot strap mounts. They should hold well on the Armalite. They can delam regular surfboards, but I doubt they'd be a problem. NSI in Hood River makes the best ones I've seen.http://www.northshoreinc.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=159
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Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Sam the Surfer

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Re: River Foil Surf
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2018, 07:44:13 PM »
Man, that looks so hard, but once you get it, you'll make it looks easy and sucker in a bunch of idiots like me. I'm still seeing position problems, your back foot looks to be too far back, when the foil lifts you can't control it.

I'd use stick-on foot strap mounts. They should hold well on the Armalite. They can delam regular surfboards, but I doubt they'd be a problem. NSI in Hood River makes the best ones I've seen.http://www.northshoreinc.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=159


Pono- I've been looking for something like that! Is there any special mounting instructions? These look to be ideal!

I have my back foot over the tbar (strut). What's kinda crazy is it feels like it is flying when the back of the board is still touching the water and I have to lean back to pop it out of the water. Once she comes up, it's big charge as the wing faces the river. I could move everything further forward... but then wonder if it will fly? Because it's a rail system, I can move the entire foil assembly forward or back. Right now it's at 13 inches from the rear of the tail and could move it back one inch. Thoughts?
The lighter board makes a huge difference as well as it only being 6' 3" (a 7' 6" with the rear cut off). The river water flows around 6-7 mph's and am wondering if an even bigger front wing is needed?

PonoBill

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Re: River Foil Surf
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2018, 09:05:11 PM »
What I've learned is as Dave K, says, a little is a lot. In the video, your foot is actually a little behind the mast. At my newb stage, I need to be either right on the mast or slightly in front of it to maintain control. Front foot position is the most important, but if my back foot is just a little too far back I can't recover when the foil pops up suddenly. If it's an inch or two too far forward I can't get the foil to fly without what feels like an extreme movement.

An inch too far back or forward on the front foot has an even greater effect. I decided my front foot was too far forward and moved my strap back an inch. I spent an hour trying to control the moon shots and finally went in and moved it back. With the river water flowing fast past the wings I suspect your foot position will need to be perfect until you learn control. The folks who are good seem to get away with a more, but initially, the foot and body position seems to be everything.

Those NSI inserts are the bomb. Try to be sure you get them where you want them. They're hard to move after you press them down. Lots of peeps using them here on Maui.
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Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

supuk

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Re: River Foil Surf
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2018, 12:41:43 AM »
you look very close but i have to say personally it looks like the water speed is to low and the only time you lift is when you put the foil at a very high angle of attack which is not going to work for sustained flight. I don't think your far off but i think trying a larger wing or some were with a greater flow if it were me, but happy to be proven otherwise. I have tried this myself a few times on rivers but not found any were with anything like enough flow. There is that video some were of it working though so don't give up with the right river and foil it will be possible.

opie

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Re: River Foil Surf
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2018, 07:49:17 AM »
You are doing exactly what you need to do to learn, flying little bits and letting your brain build up a "foiling annex".
It's only a matter of time.

I think the advice you are getting is all good. You need to play with your foot position a bit and you would have instantly done better with a bigger wing or faster water, but I suspect you could make it work with current equipment with 10 to 20 more sessions.
Mostly you just need some more time but listening to everyone's tips, even contradictory ones, will help.  I think the variation of trying different things helps the builders in the annex.  So here's my tip. To get up flying try hopping with weight on the front leg instead of leaning back.  I try to hop and catch the board a few inches up with my weight more forward.  I find it easier to be in control of the flight that way.

Good luck and stay safe.   :)

Sam the Surfer

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Re: River Foil Surf
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2018, 05:33:21 AM »
Thank you and appreciate the thoughts and suggestions.
Iíll definitely adjust the foil and my feet. Whatís kind of
Interesting is that I was leaning way back to keep the
nose of the board from pearling and not necessarily to
rise the foil. Iíll have to play with that. I think a larger
front wing would be key, although the one Iím using
is 32 inches wide and thick.
My experience using a rope is way different than just
the flow of the river.

Sam the Surfer

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Re: River Foil Surf
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2018, 04:44:05 PM »
You are doing exactly what you need to do to learn, flying little bits and letting your brain build up a "foiling annex".
It's only a matter of time.

I think the advice you are getting is all good. You need to play with your foot position a bit and you would have instantly done better with a bigger wing or faster water, but I suspect you could make it work with current equipment with 10 to 20 more sessions.
Mostly you just need some more time but listening to everyone's tips, even contradictory ones, will help.  I think the variation of trying different things helps the builders in the annex.  So here's my tip. To get up flying try hopping with weight on the front leg instead of leaning back.  I try to hop and catch the board a few inches up with my weight more forward.  I find it easier to be in control of the flight that way.

Good luck and stay safe.   :)

Went out on a solo mission today to the Mini Climax wave. Water was flowing 9,360 cfs and I tried two different rear wings and moved the foil assembly all the way back. What I learned was that on river wave you have to lean back hard to not pearl and the second it gains flight to get forward and fly. So stoked!!

Opie- Thanks for the encouragement and today was a breakthrough day. It is possible on the current equipment but a larger front wing would be awesome!
Pono- Thanks for the tip on 'mini' adjustments and I put the foil set-up all the way back about an inch. I'm ordering the stick on mounts for a front foot strap from the company you suggest.



Keep charging!!

Beasho

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Re: River Foil Surf
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2018, 05:48:56 PM »
Kudos to you for all the effort in those wintry conditions.

I was foiling today with a guy in Northern California.  I didn't recognize him and said "First time out."  He says "Sort of, its my first time in cold water, its so much nicer in Hawaii!"

Ugggggg Yeah no Joke!  He was forced to wear a wetsuit. 

Sam the Surfer

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Re: River Foil Surf
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2018, 09:53:08 PM »
Kudos to you for all the effort in those wintry conditions.

I was foiling today with a guy in Northern California.  I didn't recognize him and said "First time out."  He says "Sort of, its my first time in cold water, its so much nicer in Hawaii!"

Ugggggg Yeah no Joke!  He was forced to wear a wetsuit.

We were in a cold snap, ice was all over making the rocks slipper.
I love what you are doing at Mavericks with gathering data. I try and film with the go pro and am interested in what you have done on the ocean and applying it to the river. Any thoughts on what could work?

Sam the Surfer

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Re: River Foil Surf
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2018, 03:19:38 PM »
Great day today and was able to pump and stay in the wave. STOKED!!


SUPeter

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Re: River Foil Surf
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2018, 05:43:35 PM »
Wow!  Just found this thread.  I think we are all learning the same thing.  Foil surfing river waves is f---ing hard.  I have been trying for a year now and progress is slow to nill.  Probably for the same reason that video of Kai Lenny never materialized of him foil surfing some river wave out west.  Rides are typically so short lived that still pictures are far more impressive than the truth. The Truth!  Any time water flows over boulders and ledges, boils are formed.  Boils are wads of water moving in directions entirely different than the general flow of the river.  Foils being very sensitive to Angle Of Attack, can not easily handle these abrupt changes in flow direction and either toss you or choss you.  I have since moved my ski tow line a little upstream of the wave and to the side.  I then use the oncoming water to lift the foil for hours at a time and occasionally swing over to the wave and for a few moments when the line goes slack, I am actually foiling the wave, only to cut back after a few seconds to start tow foiling again.  Great fun!  Great practice!  Great way to test new foil shapes and designs.  Just be very, very, very careful when mixing moving water with any type of tow line.  One miscalculation and the inability to detach from a leash or line could be your last surf.

surfercook

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Re: River Foil Surf
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2018, 09:10:48 PM »
That looks WAY harder than an ocean wave! I once rode a standing river wave here on my longboard. So fun!

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Sam the Surfer

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Re: River Foil Surf
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2018, 03:07:36 PM »
Wow!  Just found this thread.  I think we are all learning the same thing.  Foil surfing river waves is f---ing hard.  I have been trying for a year now and progress is slow to nill.  Probably for the same reason that video of Kai Lenny never materialized of him foil surfing some river wave out west.  Rides are typically so short lived that still pictures are far more impressive than the truth. The Truth!  Any time water flows over boulders and ledges, boils are formed.  Boils are wads of water moving in directions entirely different than the general flow of the river.  Foils being very sensitive to Angle Of Attack, can not easily handle these abrupt changes in flow direction and either toss you or choss you.  I have since moved my ski tow line a little upstream of the wave and to the side.  I then use the oncoming water to lift the foil for hours at a time and occasionally swing over to the wave and for a few moments when the line goes slack, I am actually foiling the wave, only to cut back after a few seconds to start tow foiling again.  Great fun!  Great practice!  Great way to test new foil shapes and designs.  Just be very, very, very careful when mixing moving water with any type of tow line.  One miscalculation and the inability to detach from a leash or line could be your last surf.

Thanks for sharing! Foil surfing on the ocean is quite different than the river as well as foiling being a boat. I have found the water is moving around 8 mph so getting a high angle of attack and then flattening out works to fly. The river wave is really dynamic and I just need some more foil time- my first attempt was last Memorial weekend. A year later have a 14 lb, 6' 3" board and new wings. lol  My goal is to paddle into and out of waves and find a way to foil surf all over!!

SUPeter

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Re: River Foil Surf
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2018, 05:46:50 PM »
Finally! success!  Foiling with the new short mast helped considerably.  I used a rope to lower next to the face of the large wave and, with great trepidation, foiled over to the wave face.  Yes the turbulence was very noticeable but nowhere near the violence of my earlier attempts with the long mast,  I never did let go of the rope but would allow it to go slack for longer and longer segments of time.  The rope and associated leverage allowed me to maneuver quickly around boils to avoid the harsher bumps.   Absolutely the most fun I have ever had foiling at this site, a standing wave created by the incoming tide.  My biggest mistake was not having a go pro handy.  I will be going again so maybe footage will follow.  Any hints on settings so that the video can be downloaded  to this site?  Again, any time a rope is used in moving water, we must always have plans A, B and C.  A quick release leash which I wear on my arm.  Being dragged head first is way safer than feet first.  A knife at the ready.  I really wish I could find some sort of rope release with an adjustable release at a certain pull poundage.  While dragging underwater a great deal of force is applied to the rope.  Don't ask me how I know.
A buddy nearby just to enact plan C.  I don't always have the buddy.  I once had a wake up call at this very place and the thought did cross my mind-  "So this is how it's going to end".

I cant tell you how excited I am about this recent success.  I was truly beginning to think foiling river waves was asking a bit too much!  While the bumps(boils)  can be vicious, most of them can be sucked up with your legs.