Author Topic: Tips for Big Guys?  (Read 4926 times)

clay

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Re: Tips for Big Guys?
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2017, 08:47:51 PM »
GoFoil just released a lot more wing sizes. The new M-200 makes the Maliko look small.


There is also a Maliko 240 or 280...I can't remember exactly.  It is massive!  Saw Brett Lickle on it this weekend.  He was flying all over and he is probably your size.

That's awesome and has me re-excited about DW foiling.

And yet I'm stunned/frustrated/bummed/confused as to why gofoil isn't going to sell add on wings as a separate item?  Are folks really going to sell their foil and buy a whole new setup every time a new wing is released?  Can someone explain this to me?
Aloha, I welcome and appreciate all responses of positivity and good feeling.

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOIE6FWr1SpWvbPJIIiEgog

surfcowboy

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Re: Tips for Big Guys?
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2017, 10:26:57 PM »
Clay, as to why they aren't adding wings, I'm guessing that as a small business they made a common mistake and chose the "custom" mount option which was also cheaper in the short run (Why tool up for connection hardware when you can just mold each one when you make it?")

This would make sense to build only a few units and if the market stayed high end and centered on people owning one wing, but it's now looking like people will have a few wings for different uses. The kite guys have been at this for a while so they have this tooling worked out and also they are adding a big surf wing to an existing product, not starting from scratch, so they were working backwards from a pre-built mast and fuselage. Hence the multi wing strategy from day one. Surf wings are just one more wing to them whereas GoFoil only had one product when they started and then added another and now are faced with adding more. I'm betting they release a standard mount soon but that will screw early adopters. (When do EA's not get screwed if they aren't getting a business edge out of a product?)

This could be BS and they may have had some grand reason, but I'm betting this was just easier when they started. Pono, where are you when I need you to back my BS?

I'll be interested in watching GoFoil. I hope they can survive/thrive but if not, they won't be the first company to invent a space only to have others take over the market.

Anyone want to buy a Rio MP3 player? They owned the market in '99.

supuk

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Re: Tips for Big Guys?
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2017, 01:40:55 AM »
the hole go foil thing does seam very odd to me, I cant see why they shouldn't be able to make them interchangeable, it shouldn't be any real different to making a fin fit in a finbox and they seam to be about the only surf brand that is not using the flat plate mount but they do seam to perform very well. Naish on the other had have gone the opposite way and made just about everything interchangeable through out there hole foil line.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Tips for Big Guys?
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2017, 03:40:14 AM »
Using a tapered shaft was poor design choice. It creates wing fit issues with the slightest tolerance variation. They will never get out of the mess they are trapped in, until they redesign it.

Naish has done a much better job of designing a wing mount.

Beasho

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Re: Tips for Big Guys?
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2017, 11:13:40 AM »
Here is a tip: Get out and Foil

Foiling is way more efficient than surfing - PERIOD! 

Given that water is 800X more dense than air and lift is proportional to: Surface Area X Density Fluid X Speed ^2 there is a huge advantage to flying through water.

If you're a bigger guy JUST GET A BIGGER FOIL, similar to how you would get a bigger SUP.  The Lift to Drag ratio of a Foil is going to be 2X as efficient as your big guy board.

At this point all you have to worry about is the strength of the carbon mast and your box . . . . . which can be an issue.

Here is Sam P'ae flying the Maliko 200.  He weighs #230 and has learned how to pump this rig back out to sea.  How bout them apples  :o



« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 11:54:31 AM by Beasho »

Beasho

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Re: Tips for Big Guys?
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2017, 11:19:45 AM »
Last year I read up on Bob Simmons to understand just WTF is going on under the water when planing.
 
Summary:  The only 2 forms of lift available on the water are Displacement lift and Hyrdrostatic lift.

Displacement is how much water the vessel impose/displaces in the water. 

Hydrostatic Lift is the more interesting component.  The word at its root describes what is going on Hydro (Water) + Static (Stationary).  The water is stationary, not flowing, we are moving or slamming through a FIXED medium. 

Introduce the Conservation of Momentum:

“For a collision occurring between object 1 and object 2 in an isolated system, the total momentum of the two objects before the collision is equal to the total momentum of the two objects after the collision. That is, the momentum lost by object 1 is equal to the momentum gained by object 2.”

As our boards move horizontally, nose up, we are pushing the water down using what is basically an inclined plane.  The faster we move the harder we push the water ‘down.’  This downward pressure or force can be calculated as the water goes from a resting state at the surface to being pushed ‘down’ in a fraction of a second to the depth of our wake.  Bernoulli's principle as applied to a wing shape adheres to the conservation of Momentum as well. 

So your SUP board, when up to speed on a wave, is plowing over the surface AS EFFICIENT AS A FLAT PLATE OF PLYWOOD.  In Contrast THE FOIL IS FLYING ALONG AS EFFICIENT AS AN AIRPLANE WING. 

Take a look at the wake that the two lifting bodies create to see how much wasted energy results from the flat plate approach. 
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 11:59:43 AM by Beasho »

exiled

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Re: Tips for Big Guys?
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2017, 01:28:06 PM »
JUST GET A BIGGER FOIL

BUT HOW BIG DO I GO?

Okay, but seriously even since I started this thread the options have expanded greatly. I sat out on the first generation of foils because I was skeptical that I could use the same foil the 145 pounders of the world were learning on. Watching Sam Pa'e and the rest of his crew buzz around me as I waited for a set big enough to break convinced me it was time to look again. The trouble is that I have no idea what wings work for what weight classes in what conditions. Do I just buy the biggest wing I can or will a big Maliko 280 generate too much lift in the surf?

opie

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Re: Tips for Big Guys?
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2017, 04:50:39 PM »
It's worth an email or call to Go Foil.  I talked to Karla Aguera when I had questions and she was super helpful.  I bet the new Iwa wing would work for you, but I am still a beginner, and only 180 lbs, so her advice would be better than mine.

clay

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Re: Tips for Big Guys?
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2017, 03:47:28 PM »
JUST GET A BIGGER FOIL

BUT HOW BIG DO I GO?

Okay, but seriously even since I started this thread the options have expanded greatly. I sat out on the first generation of foils because I was skeptical that I could use the same foil the 145 pounders of the world were learning on. Watching Sam Pa'e and the rest of his crew buzz around me as I waited for a set big enough to break convinced me it was time to look again. The trouble is that I have no idea what wings work for what weight classes in what conditions. Do I just buy the biggest wing I can or will a big Maliko 280 generate too much lift in the surf?

I wish had I bought bought the Kai wing with my Maliko at the same time.  Now I am at the point where the Maliko works for some spots or certain days, and I am really wishing I had both smaller and bigger wings.  I suspect most foilers will find that once they get over the steep learning curve and are addicted they will want/need a full quiver of wings.
Aloha, I welcome and appreciate all responses of positivity and good feeling.

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOIE6FWr1SpWvbPJIIiEgog

blueplanetsurf

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Re: Tips for Big Guys?
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2017, 04:54:14 PM »
At 230 lbs I think of the foil on the market today, the Iwa 180 is the best choice for you.
Robert Stehlik
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jondrums

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Re: Tips for Big Guys?
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2017, 09:34:40 PM »
I wish had I bought bought the Kai wing with my Maliko at the same time.  Now I am at the point where the Maliko works for some spots or certain days, and I am really wishing I had both smaller and bigger wings. 

Absolutely.  I am 200# + and have the Maliko. I just had my first session where I realized that I need a smaller wing.  Fighting to keep the thing in the water and tripping over myself with too much speed.  Certainly not all waves will do this, but I got on some more powerful stuff and I think I would have been a lot happier on something smaller.

XLR8

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Re: Tips for Big Guys?
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2017, 06:06:08 AM »
I'm bigger guy and I am also trying to foil in mushy freshwater Great Lakes waves.  I'm 6'2 and embarrassingly 220 lbs right now.  45 years old.  The foil is an extra incentive for me to get back to my good working weight of 190-195 lbs.  There is a small fun foil movement here.  Of course the kiters and windsurfer were at it first but there are a few of us messing around with foils.  My friend Matt made 4 boards for our first foray, ranging from boards in the 6 and 7 foot range to my 8'x27"x4.75" board at around 140 liters I believe. I didn't get any time on it behind a boat and received the Go Foil Maliko just in time for it's first attempt on December 1, just after a snowfall so I had more weight on me with a full hooded 5/4 wetsuit and 5 mil boots and gloves.  I had no less than half a dozen short flights during my hour and a half session.  Super stoked!  My smallest surf sup is 9'4x30 and I was a little concerned about managing the foil board.  I handled the board just fine.  We have quickly careened into winter here but there are still waves and I will be continuing to learn until freeze up. 

« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 06:10:58 AM by XLR8 »
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exiled

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Re: Tips for Big Guys?
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2017, 12:40:11 PM »
Thanks for all of the input guys. I think I'm getting in on the Ke Nalu pre-order, large wing of course. The zoner discount is too good to pass up.

jrandy

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Re: Tips for Big Guys?
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2018, 08:30:15 PM »
If anyone has more ride reports, tips, and techniques for the bigger pilots please keep them coming.
http://pushheretosavealife.com/
Be safe, have fun. -J

PonoBill

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Re: Tips for Big Guys?
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2018, 09:27:54 PM »
So far my goto foil is the GoFoil Maliko 200. I'm 230 and clumsy. The foil both lifts me easily at low speed and is stable. I can't really say how well it turns since my turns are mostly random wandering, but it does that well and I can keep it under control when it speeds up. The Iwa doesn't have enough lift for me in my current mode of really sucking at this, but every time I look at it I think "when I get into bigger waves, this will be my Kai."

When I get back to Hood River I'm going to repurpose my water tunnel into a foil lift calibrator. With some minor work, I can make the thing deliver 5mph of water flow to calibrate the lift of wings and stabilizers.
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Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

 


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