Author Topic: The effects of SUP - A 2016 study  (Read 4156 times)

Off-Shore

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The effects of SUP - A 2016 study
« on: November 07, 2017, 02:21:25 PM »
I came across this online. Interesting in that they found in the novice group studied that whilst there were many benefits balance did not improve over the testing period.

“The training program consisted of 3 x 1 h sessions per week for 6 weeks. There was a rest period of 48 h before subsequent sessions with no sessions being performed on Sundays for either group. Participants were given longer, wider boards to begin with (~11' length, 33" width, 4.6" thickness), before moving on to shorter, narrower boards (~length 9'1, 29.5"width, 4.4" thickness) to challenge postural control more as the weeks progressed”

“Conclusion

Stand up paddle boarding appears to be an enjoyable, easy to learn alternative to traditional forms of training. This study shows significant improvement in aerobic and anaerobic fitness, multidirectional trunk endurance and self-rated quality of life measures can be elicited by SUP participation for previously untrained individuals. This study provides some evidence for the anecdotal claims of benefits of its participation.”

The full report here

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5057214/

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Eagle

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Re: The effects of SUP - A 2016 study
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2017, 04:34:47 PM »
"Although our previous research has shown superior balance ability from an elite population of SUP athletes [8], it may be that individuals that already possess a high level of balance are attracted to and subsequently succeed in such sports."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26289320

"Elite SUP had significantly better static and dynamic postural control when compared to the other groups. This study demonstrates the anthropometric, physiological and musculoskeletal values representative of elite and recreational SUP. SUP appears to be associated with increased levels of aerobic and anaerobic fitness, increased static and dynamic balance and a high level of isometric trunk endurance."

Yeah the novice group is probs different and the timespan was quite short.  Def from our perspective balance continues to improve on an ongoing basis.  Whereas our 23 felt quite twitchy at first -> it is now quite non-twitchy.  But adaptation did occur after weeks and months to over a year now.  The adaptation does go away a bit if you do not go out -> or switch to a more stable wider board.  Kinda weird like that.
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blueplanetsurf

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Re: The effects of SUP - A 2016 study
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2017, 05:07:18 PM »
Interesting study, Off-shore, thanks for posting.   Everything improved except for balance, which I find hard to comprehend.  I think all of us can attest that Stand Up Paddling has improved our balance on a board.  I think there is no doubt that balance on a SUP improves and you can get used to much narrower and tippier boards with practice.  There is no way I could have balanced on the boards I use now when I first started.  I wonder if that improved balance on the water does not translate to the balance test they used?  Or is it that the improved balance on the water is situational muscle memory and does not translate to better balance overall? 

This is how they tested for postural control:

Postural control was assessed in the laboratory via a portable force platform (Kistler 2812D with Bioware 4.0, 100 Hz sampling rate) with three piezoelectric force sensors used to calculate the centre of pressure (COP) foot positions. Measurements using such force platforms have been shown to be reliable, giving data such as length, area and velocity of sway [13]. Static and dynamic postural control was assessed as per Palliard [14]. Static postural control was assessed for 50 s while dynamic postural control on a seesaw was assessed for 25 s. These conditions were tested with eyes open (EO) and then repeated with eyes closed (EC). The tests were conducted in order from most stable to least stable.
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Off-Shore

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Re: The effects of SUP - A 2016 study
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2017, 05:52:10 PM »
Robert. I absolutely agree. Perhaps 6 weeks is just not enough time to sway the results of that test. If you have ever done those tests where you stand on one foot with your eyes closed (EC), and see how long you can last., I was surprised despite all the SUP I have done I was not that good. Open my eyes (OE) and I can stand on one leg for a real long time..
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ukgm

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Re: The effects of SUP - A 2016 study
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2017, 11:57:18 PM »
I came across this online.



Yep, that's Ben Schram's work. He's pretty much the only person who has conducted any peer reviewed into SUP at all (I think it forms part of his PhD studies). I reached out to him last year as I'm working on some stuff. There are limitations - mostly due to sample size, selection and study length duration but its nice to see some work out there.

yugi

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Re: The effects of SUP - A 2016 study
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2017, 03:41:37 AM »
Interesting study, Off-shore, thanks for posting.   Everything improved except for balance, which I find hard to comprehend.  I think all of us can attest that Stand Up Paddling has improved our balance on a board.  I think there is no doubt that balance on a SUP improves and you can get used to much narrower and tippier boards with practice.  There is no way I could have balanced on the boards I use now when I first started.  I wonder if that improved balance on the water does not translate to the balance test they used?  Or is it that the improved balance on the water is situational muscle memory and does not translate to better balance overall? 

This is how they tested for postural control:

Postural control was assessed in the laboratory via a portable force platform (Kistler 2812D with Bioware 4.0, 100 Hz sampling rate) with three piezoelectric force sensors used to calculate the centre of pressure (COP) foot positions. Measurements using such force platforms have been shown to be reliable, giving data such as length, area and velocity of sway [13]. Static and dynamic postural control was assessed as per Palliard [14]. Static postural control was assessed for 50 s while dynamic postural control on a seesaw was assessed for 25 s. These conditions were tested with eyes open (EO) and then repeated with eyes closed (EC). The tests were conducted in order from most stable to least stable.

SUP definitely improves balance for other sports.

Looks like their way of measuring balance is odd.

I didn't take the time to look into exactly how a "portable force platform such as Kistler 2812D with Bioware 4.0" works and exactly what it is measuring. I presume it checks your reactions.

SUP probably increases your reactions to stay balanced. Hence why overall balance is improved for other sports.

The measure is upfucked in my opinion. Are they measuring zen factor where you miraculously are so "chi" that you don't need to correct at all?

Part of my work is in helping businesses with their analytics. You can put all the tech you want in place but the real key is to measure the right things.

pdxmike

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Re: The effects of SUP - A 2016 study
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2017, 10:38:41 AM »
Interesting study, Off-shore, thanks for posting.   Everything improved except for balance, which I find hard to comprehend.  I think all of us can attest that Stand Up Paddling has improved our balance on a board.  I think there is no doubt that balance on a SUP improves and you can get used to much narrower and tippier boards with practice.  There is no way I could have balanced on the boards I use now when I first started.  I wonder if that improved balance on the water does not translate to the balance test they used?  Or is it that the improved balance on the water is situational muscle memory and does not translate to better balance overall? 

This is how they tested for postural control:

Postural control was assessed in the laboratory via a portable force platform (Kistler 2812D with Bioware 4.0, 100 Hz sampling rate) with three piezoelectric force sensors used to calculate the centre of pressure (COP) foot positions. Measurements using such force platforms have been shown to be reliable, giving data such as length, area and velocity of sway [13]. Static and dynamic postural control was assessed as per Palliard [14]. Static postural control was assessed for 50 s while dynamic postural control on a seesaw was assessed for 25 s. These conditions were tested with eyes open (EO) and then repeated with eyes closed (EC). The tests were conducted in order from most stable to least stable.

SUP definitely improves balance for other sports.

Looks like their way of measuring balance is odd.

I didn't take the time to look into exactly how a "portable force platform such as Kistler 2812D with Bioware 4.0" works and exactly what it is measuring. I presume it checks your reactions.

SUP probably increases your reactions to stay balanced. Hence why overall balance is improved for other sports.

The measure is upfucked in my opinion. Are they measuring zen factor where you miraculously are so "chi" that you don't need to correct at all?

Part of my work is in helping businesses with their analytics. You can put all the tech you want in place but the real key is to measure the right things.
Wasn't "I thought you said portable force platform such as Kistler 2812D with Bioware 0.4, not 4.0!"  the punch line of a Steve Martin routine he performed when he thought the Exercise Physiologists' convention was in town on Tuesday instead of Wednesday?


I bet you're right.  When a study result differs from common sense, sometimes it's common sense that's wrong, but often it means science just hasn't had time to catch up with how or what to measure to determine what's going on.




stoneaxe

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Re: The effects of SUP - A 2016 study
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2017, 12:08:58 PM »
LOL....doesn't help balance. That one statement makes me question the accuracy of it all. I'm an extreme case but if it didn't help balance I simply wouldn't be able to do it. I had done all kinds of standard balance/vestibular therapy before SUP with little positive result. It took months of 4-5 sessions/week before I saw results but I did and they were just short of miraculous....at least I stopped falling all the time....on land anyway. I don't think 6 weeks is long enough to see what for most people would be minor improvements.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 12:12:28 PM by stoneaxe »
Bob

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SUPcheat

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Re: The effects of SUP - A 2016 study
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2017, 01:36:44 PM »
What I heard anecdotally was that surfing is a "lifer" skill that takes a long time with lots of plateaus in between.  The guys that start young (Duh) get a lot of the preliminary reflex accumulation out of the way early.

I was as amazed as anybody that acquiring the mysteries of skill were possible at my age.  However, the time spans are longer than any researcher is probably willing to spend on a study.

  Ten months of practice on the harbor, but I still felt "new" when I went out on the perpetually moving ocean, much less before actually standing up to catch a wave.  I remember watching a SUP contest before I ever went out, and it looked miraculous to me that the girls could keep standing on those boards.  When I was on the harbor, and I saw young people going out on the bounding surf and waves, I really thought that I would never be able to do that, yet a couple years later, I can.

My main gripe is that my body gets tired of balancing and "quits" after a while, usually with a water plop.  That may just be the function of age that is hardest to overcome.  However, since the balance still is improving incrementally, the end point remains a mystery, but it is fun going there.

I can stand on a bosu ball at the gym with the soft side down with my eyes closed, and for a bit on one foot, and balance quite well now.  I can feel the micro muscles shivering all over my body sheaf.  It seems all those small innervations help the proprioception, and I definitely did not have those a couple of years ago.
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blueplanetsurf

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Re: The effects of SUP - A 2016 study
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2017, 02:43:21 PM »
My balance on water and on land has improved substantially since I started Stand Up Paddling and I have also been doing more balance exercises and yoga than before.

There are studies that suggest that balance and good health are correlated, like this one:
https://news.heart.org/ability-balance-one-leg-may-reflect-brain-health-stroke-risk/

There are also studies that correlate the time it takes to stand up from a sitting position to health:
http://discovermagazine.com/2013/nov/05-sit-down

Since SUP helps improve both balance and ability to stand up quickly, it's clearly the fountain of youth!



Robert Stehlik
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fatfish

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Re: The effects of SUP - A 2016 study
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2018, 09:12:33 AM »
Really interesting article.

My take away, the more I SUP then the more my cognitive abilities should improve. 

TallDude

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Re: The effects of SUP - A 2016 study
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2018, 09:14:30 AM »
As far as balance is concerned, and aside from a medical condition, I think balance is simply a 'mind over matter' ability. Everyone starts out with a wider board. As we gain more confidence, we go narrower. We eventually we hit a confidence plateau. The threshold of that plateau is set by our own level of confidence. When we are young, our level of confidence feels unlimited. We climb plateaus like stairs to the stage. As we age and have reduced mobility, we can start to feel a reduced level of confidence. We fall back to thinking we need wider and longer boards. Then we start doubting ourselves..  'it does look a little too big today'.... It's OK. It's called wisdom. If we need to wear shoes with improved stability, then we probably need a board with it too. I think some throw in the towel way too early. It's probably a DNA thing.
If we still want a board, then our minds are still winning over matter. Lets keep it that way.

stoneaxe

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Re: The effects of SUP - A 2016 study
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2018, 10:17:22 AM »
I think a lot of life is mind over matter. A lot depends on how stubborn you are. I don't think very many people had as hard a time learning to SUP as I did. I'm not even sure why I didn't simply give up after trying for two months and continually falling. It's a big part of why I know the study at the beginning of this is a bunch of bullshit. I'm not your average case but still. It took  3 months...then all of a sudden it clicked and I stopped falling all the time. It takes a lot longer than a few weeks to reconfigure your balance system.

I also see a lot of people that have given in to back issues or neck issues or whatever. I've had more than my share of health issues. The docs all tell me I'm basically screwed. What I've learned in almost every case though is that if you push through the tough part and force yourself to work through the pain that eventually it goes away...at least to the point where you can function. If you give in and bend to the pain that's when you are truly fucked. Whenever my back is screaming and it wants me to hunch over to alleviate the pain I think " I am NOT going to walk like Ed Sullivan" (my brother-in-law who most of the time I'd like to dope slap)... ;)

If that's wisdom what is it when we say 'it does look a little too big today" and then go anyway..... :o
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 10:22:33 AM by stoneaxe »
Bob

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Bean

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Re: The effects of SUP - A 2016 study
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2018, 01:25:43 PM »
Like everything else in life, we have the balance we are born with and the balance that we develop through practice.  From my experience, improvements from practice seem very task specific.  Clearly not all task specific balance skills translate to other activities. 

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Re: The effects of SUP - A 2016 study
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2018, 04:42:30 PM »
Yeah I think that balance threshold is "mind over matter".  What I found is that unless I specifically forced myself to use my All Star in rougher conditions -> I would choose not to.  My balance gains would seem to fade the more I used stable boards since I could get away with a sloppy crap technique and still stay dry.

So decided to basically use the 23 in all but the roughest conditions and just get used to that.  Can say that has been a tough road -> but so very satisfying.  My balance has steadily improved and the 23 is very stable now especially on flat.  Would have been more fun on wider boards in those rougher conditions -> but do find it fun enough now on the narrower board.  In more docile to changing ocean conditions it is by far the best board choice for me.

Basically SUP on all my boards is my goto activity to improve my dynamic balance.  Rough and windy -> or calm and flat.  Still is so much fun.  Interesting that a number of paddlers seem to have dropped from 27 down to 25 wide boards.  For me though in bigger DW conditions -> 27 and 28 wide is proper.   ;)
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