Author Topic: SUP Fatality Stats  (Read 3954 times)

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SUP Fatality Stats
« on: October 15, 2017, 05:24:58 AM »
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 04:17:49 AM by Admin »

burchas

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Re: SUP Fatality Stats
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2017, 06:14:42 AM »
There is a category there named inflatable that has 30 incidents. Do we know if it cover sups as well?
Was interesting to see that none of the paddle boats incidents were due to Hull Failure.
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Re: SUP Fatality Stats
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2017, 06:33:00 AM »
What jumped out at me for sup was the number of drownings due to not wearing a PFD.
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Re: SUP Fatality Stats
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2017, 09:00:37 AM »
There is a category there named inflatable that has 30 incidents. Do we know if it cover sups as well?
Was interesting to see that none of the paddle boats incidents were due to Hull Failure.
I imagine inflatable refers to inflatable rafts, mats, tubes, etc. Floaties you blow up with your mouth type of thing.

 
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Eagle

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Re: SUP Fatality Stats
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2017, 09:36:47 AM »
Number of deaths by drowning with life jacket worn in 2016 ->

1.   Kayak = 22
2.   Canoe = 4
3.   SUP = 1

In a closed kayak once you roll over you are in big trouble if you cannot get out or get back upright even with a full life jacket.  It could be that for canoe and SUP -> a PFD type was worn and was included as a life jacket.  If not deployed properly a PFD especially an inflatable can be a problem for those that cannot swim or float.

Most reported SUP drownings last year were due to paddlers not wearing a life jacket or any type of PFD.  Many that SUP around our local beaches do not wear any flotation device.  Most that wear anything wear inflatable PFDs.  A few wear full life jackets or unapproved life jackets.  Key take-away for SUP seems to be -> wear some type of flotation device approved or not.

http://www.redcross.ca/training-and-certification/swimming-and-water-safety-tips-and-resources/swimming--boating-and-water-safety-tips/lifejackets-and-pfds
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pdxmike

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Re: SUP Fatality Stats
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2017, 12:35:07 PM »
It's all great info.

One thing--it's easy to say, "11 SUP drownings were due to not wearing a PFD", and that's right in the sense that if the victims had been wearing pfds, they (probably) wouldn't have drowned.  But without additional knowledge, I think it's more accurate to say, "up to 11 SUP drownings may have been prevented by wearing a PFD".

To me, the fact that wearing a PFD could have prevented the drowning isn't the same as saying not wearing one caused the drowning.  Think of a driving death.  If you were texting or drunk, or you got hit by someone texting or drunk, and you were in a collision and died, but weren't wearing a seat belt, and wearing one would have saved your life, then you COULD say, "The victim died because they weren't wearing a seat belt, because if they had been wearing one, they'd be alive".  But the UNDERLYING reason for the death would have been driving while texting or drunk.

So to me, it would be important to look at each death of people not wearing PFDs, and see what else was involved--and the first chart DOES do that with "primary contributing factors"--2 involved alcohol, 1 "sudden medical condition", etc. with 8 "unknown". 

But in all these statistics and analysis, where is the most obvious factor:  SWIMMING ABILITY?  Swimming ability could possibly have allowed all 11 drowning victims who were not wearing PFDs to survive.  I'd say lack of swimming ability certainly needs to be considered as a contributing factor in any drowning.  Obviously it's not going to save you if you have a massive heart attack, but otherwise it could easily make up for lack of a PFD.

Also, there's no mention of leashes, or of ability to climb back on a board.  How many drownings involved someone who couldn't swim well, and had no PFD, but were attached to their board with a leash, and could easily get back up onto it?  I'd guess none or very few.

And conversely in all this, how many people fell of boards and were not wearing PFDs, but DIDN'T drown because they had a leash and/or could swim, and could get back on their board?  Thousands, who will never appear in any statistics.

It'd be great to know how many people drowned who were not wearing PFDs but WERE wearing leashes and had at least minimal swimming ability.  I'd guess none or few.  Same for people without PFDs but who were strong swimmers--I'd guess very few.  But we have to guess until leashes and swimming ability are factored into the analysis.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 12:39:01 PM by pdxmike »

2Rivers

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Re: SUP Fatality Stats
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2017, 01:06:10 PM »
Most that wear anything wear inflatable PFDs.  A few wear full life jackets or unapproved life jackets.
I like the Canadian distinction between a PFD and a Lifejacket. In the US back in October of 2014 the USCG officially dropped the "Types" for PFDs. The term PFD is now classified into two categories... "Wearable PFD" and "Throwable PFD".
 
"The term “PFD” is used in regulatory language and refers to a USCG-approved buoyant device designed to assist in keeping a person afloat in the water. A wearable PFD is a “lifejacket” and this term is acceptable for use during instruction, as long as the difference between a wearable PFD and throwable PFD is described."

What will be interesting to see is the updated language on labels to distinguish it's appropriate use or level of performance.
Old article with label examples: https://www.passagemaker.com/trawler-news/opting-for-plain-english-uscg-wants-new-pfd-labels
Short read: https://asa.com/news/2015/05/18/coast-guard-new-pfd-labeling/#
Long read: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2014/09/22/2014-22373/personal-flotation-devices-labeling-and-standards
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 01:52:42 PM by 2Rivers »
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yugi

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Re: SUP Fatality Stats
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2017, 01:16:24 PM »
It's all great info.

One thing--it's easy to say, "11 SUP drownings were due to not wearing a PFD", and that's right in the sense that if the victims had been wearing pfds, they (probably) wouldn't have drowned.  But without additional knowledge, I think it's more accurate to say, "up to 11 SUP drownings may have been prevented by wearing a PFD".
...
You're right. It's just a general stat across all forms of watercraft no it isn't making any conclusions nor trying to. 
 
Each craft has it's set of circumstances. Notice kayaks have lots of deaths with PFD's. That's because they're doing gnarly rapids.

...
It'd be great to know how many people drowned who were not wearing PFDs but WERE wearing leashes and had at least minimal swimming ability.  I'd guess none or few.  Same for people without PFDs but who were strong swimmers--I'd guess very few.  But we have to guess until leashes and swimming ability are factored into the analysis.
That would be a better stat. Not going to happen in these kind of general watercraft stats.

General take home lesson is SUP is pretty safe. I'm not really surprised by anything I saw in there. Water and open water and nature and ... and .... and... and accidents happen.

2Rivers

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Re: SUP Fatality Stats
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2017, 01:52:26 PM »
Hazardous Waters are indicated as a factor, but there's no indication about Water Temp as being a contributing factor. Cold water could be considered as hazardous, but there's no clarification vs. strong waves and/or currents that are normally associated with being hazardous. Cold Water Shock was one of the contributing factors to some of the drownings up in Tahoe. Some were supposedly strong swimmers and were near shore when they fell in.

Cold Water Shock is different from Hypothermia (which is listed) which takes a bit to settle in. The most common deadly reaction to Cold Water Shock is the big gasp of air your body instinctually takes when shocked.
"If your head is underwater when you gasp, you will immediately drown, and without the support of a PFD, you will head straight for the bottom."
Others have also gone into cardiac arrest when shocked.

« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 01:59:48 PM by 2Rivers »
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Re: SUP Fatality Stats
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2017, 03:52:05 PM »
Most that wear anything wear inflatable PFDs.  A few wear full life jackets or unapproved life jackets.
I like the Canadian distinction between a PFD and a Lifejacket. In the US back in October of 2014 the USCG officially dropped the "Types" for PFDs. The term PFD is now classified into two categories... "Wearable PFD" and "Throwable PFD".....

Hmm?  Did not realize the States have gone to "wearable" and "throwable".  So yeah our distinction seems better.  It is clear to us with manual waist inflatables you have to pull the tab and put the air bag over your head.  So is not good for non-swimmers or people who cannot float.  Most here recognize these limitations so peeps who get and use these are quite confident in the water.

Personally for very rough windy days will go to a full life jacket as it provides instant max float.  Really like this as it reduces the amount of submersion to near zero so there is little panic or WTF surprise.  Just hop back on and give it another go.  Have gone in about 5x with a inflatable waist PFD and 5x with a full life jacket.  But always feel much safer in the water wearing the full life jacket.  No worries of cracked ribs and can relax even with spindrift everywhere.  But have seen some comments that full life jackets are despised because they hinder getting back on their boards because of the extra bulk.  So guess that you gotta do what works best for you. 

Yes to a leash too for us.  As the benefits outweigh the cons for our use in the ocean.  Would freak major if our board went adrift in 5C water 2 miles from land.  Even a 1/4 mile would freak out.
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Re: SUP Fatality Stats
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2017, 04:17:03 PM »
No worries of cracked ribs and can relax even with spindrift everywhere[/b][/i]. 

+1.

I took a tumble on my board once when I was wearing my waist PFD. Bruised my ribs and took me weeks to recover. Since then I’ve always used a full PFD. I’m a good swimmer and pretty confident in the water, but it surprised me how incapacitated I became with bruised ribs. I wasn’t in any real danger as I also had a leash on and I grabbed onto my board quite quickly. I’m not sure though, if I had actually broken my ribs, that I would have been able to get that waist PFD out of the belt and over my head. I guess you do what you need to do, but again it surprised me just how much hurt I was in with my ribs, and they were only bruised.

And the other thing for me is that I don’t want to have to recover from something that can easily be prevented. Where I live our summers are not all that long and I want to take advantage of every minute. I just don’t want to take the chance of bruising ribs once again and being out of commission and losing time from my summer if I can help it.

So for me, I always use a full PFD when I’m on my board

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PonoBill

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Re: SUP Fatality Stats
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2017, 05:28:28 PM »
Useful information that would be made a lot more useful by knowing an approximate number of participants in each vessel category, or even more useful with the approximate number of hours the vessels are used. SUP comes off looking pretty good compared to open motorboats, but the difference in number and frequency of use is probably huge. There's no way to make a conclusion about safety or the lack of it with these numbers.

SUP rentals look extremely safe, for example. Probably safer than staying on the beach until the frequency of use is included.
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Re: SUP Fatality Stats
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2017, 06:07:05 PM »
I thought the data stats were pretty useful and put into perspective some general numbers.  No doubt if they had a specific mandate and more budget they could come up with a rough approx. of participants and hours etc. 

But basically what seems to be valid for SUP is peeps that wear PFDs have a significant better chance of not drowning than those that do not.  That type of stat should be put out by retailers and manufacturers.  Front and centre.  Somewhere at least.  Then maybe the number of drownings might drop.  Even one life saved would be positive.  PFDs save lives.  ;)
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Re: SUP Fatality Stats
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2017, 11:22:58 PM »
I knew I might be one of those surfski stats if I ventured out on a day like today.  Simply, on my stand up, I can see over mile ahead.  On my surfski there would have been a high probability of driving right into one of those outer reef pop ups and getting my ass handed to me.  You can't see too far ahead in a ski as you're so damn low in the water.

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Re: SUP Fatality Stats
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2017, 11:24:22 PM »
o
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 11:27:12 PM by headmount »

 


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