Author Topic: Foiling Surfski  (Read 1920 times)

Stoke

  • Waikiki Status
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Foiling Surfski
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2017, 09:24:56 PM »
One of the local surf skiers mounted a Clearwater to his ski and said he was experimenting with it. Based on our conversation it didn't sound like it was going too well so far.  Seems hard to imagine trimming would work well without the ability to quickly shift your whole body weight around.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Admin

  • Administrator
  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3996
    • View Profile
    • StandUpZone
    • Email
Re: Foiling Surfski
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2017, 03:39:17 AM »
Double bladed paddling generates a lot more force than single bladed or hand paddling.  The question will be if paddling glide maintenance on the foil can replace pumping.  My guess is yes.  If that is the case then a highly reduced "boat" will be viable.  Maybe just water wings and the foil mast clenched in butt cheeks. 

If you can get rid of the huge boat, trim should be possible with upper body lean.   This would have a very low center of gravity compared to any of the other sports. 

For the ski pictured in the original thread (according to one comment) a patent application is pending for a moving seat mechanism to control pitch and steering.  I would hope that would not be needed in a greatly reduced design.

Foils are indeed being added to all watercraft but some really shine while others look pretty clunky (not to say they aren't fun).  Kiting looks amazing with a foil and in my eyes is the most natural implementation so far (still a goal of mine as long as I can convince my asshole legs to cooperate).  Seated, double bladed paddling seems like it could get into that range for downwind and ocean swell cruising. 

I had a dream (no shit) that I was sitting a mile outside of little Mak on a huge day and picking up rolling bombs on my butt foil and doing speed runs and carving off 100 yards outside of the lineup.  Hah!  I love sports dreams.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 04:42:30 AM by Admin »

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 20431
    • View Profile
    • Ponohouse is for sale. Great house but it's time for new adventures
Re: Foiling Surfski
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2017, 06:50:39 AM »
A flyak should surf just fine. It's odd that they haven't been tried more in swells. There isn't any problem with one wing being behind the swell, that wing will get almost as much energy as the front one--in some cases more. Remember that the wave energy is all moving in the same direction. You can see the better foil surfers keeping their boards going on the backside of the swell. Even standard surfboards don't get much of the energy they use from sliding down a hill--they convert a tiny fraction of the thousands of horsepower in the wave into velocity. More obvious with foils. Marlon and Austin wind up back of the peak a lot and often make it over the peak with minimal pumping.

I think a much more refined geezer foil would be great for a kayak. I screwed up the calculations and have nearly three times more surface area than I needed. GF2 can lift over 600 pounds. No idea how I did that. The big advantage of surface-piercing foils is inherent roll stability. I still haven't done serious testing of GF2, but hand pull tests (yes, a rope, some weight, and Nichols Boat Basin) show it to be extremely stable in roll. The nose bounced around like a dolphin, but it wouldn't roll.

Initial body position will be important, but upper body movement should be enough to control pitch if the foils are sized right
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

headmount

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 5610
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Foiling Surfski
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2017, 12:39:31 PM »
A flyak should surf just fine. It's odd that they haven't been tried more in swells. There isn't any problem with one wing being behind the swell, that wing will get almost as much energy as the front one--in some cases more. Remember that the wave energy is all moving in the same direction. You can see the better foil surfers keeping their boards going on the backside of the swell. Even standard surfboards don't get much of the energy they use from sliding down a hill--they convert a tiny fraction of the thousands of horsepower in the wave into velocity. More obvious with foils. Marlon and Austin wind up back of the peak a lot and often make it over the peak with minimal pumping.

I think a much more refined geezer foil would be great for a kayak. I screwed up the calculations and have nearly three times more surface area than I needed. GF2 can lift over 600 pounds. No idea how I did that. The big advantage of surface-piercing foils is inherent roll stability. I still haven't done serious testing of GF2, but hand pull tests (yes, a rope, some weight, and Nichols Boat Basin) show it to be extremely stable in roll. The nose bounced around like a dolphin, but it wouldn't roll.

Initial body position will be important, but upper body movement should be enough to control pitch if the foils are sized right
Sounds great and I'm into it if it'll work.  Let's do it!

Admin

  • Administrator
  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3996
    • View Profile
    • StandUpZone
    • Email
Re: Foiling Surfski
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2017, 04:34:06 AM »
A flyak should surf just fine. It's odd that they haven't been tried more in swells. There isn't any problem with one wing being behind the swell, that wing will get almost as much energy as the front one--in some cases more. Remember that the wave energy is all moving in the same direction. You can see the better foil surfers keeping their boards going on the backside of the swell. Even standard surfboards don't get much of the energy they use from sliding down a hill--they convert a tiny fraction of the thousands of horsepower in the wave into velocity. More obvious with foils. Marlon and Austin wind up back of the peak a lot and often make it over the peak with minimal pumping.

I think a much more refined geezer foil would be great for a kayak. I screwed up the calculations and have nearly three times more surface area than I needed. GF2 can lift over 600 pounds. No idea how I did that. The big advantage of surface-piercing foils is inherent roll stability. I still haven't done serious testing of GF2, but hand pull tests (yes, a rope, some weight, and Nichols Boat Basin) show it to be extremely stable in roll. The nose bounced around like a dolphin, but it wouldn't roll.

Initial body position will be important, but upper body movement should be enough to control pitch if the foils are sized right

I think your basic design could be great with a double bladed paddle.  May take a few iterations...but you have a mostly empty shop :)

I like the idea of slapping existing known good parts together to figure out what the issues are.  That should allow quicker changes and adjustments at the beginning.

Without a need to pump, and with a very reduced boat, it seems like a shorter mast may be fine.  That could allow comfortable paddling while on the foil.  If you can get there I think you have a really fun sport.  small, relatively light, maneuverable...talking myself into it now. 

What is Piros doing with all of those China Foils :).

blackeye

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 415
    • View Profile
Re: Foiling Surfski
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2017, 07:15:09 AM »
There is probably something to this 'Idea' but the end state is going to look nothing like this....  Once your up on the foil you want the entire craft to go away.

And to quote Admin: "If that is the case then a highly reduced "boat" will be viable.  Maybe just water wings and the foil mast clenched in butt cheeks."

Foilboots and a PFD. Pump them up and down and away you go. No clench.