SUP industry exposed?

[supsurf-tw]

There are just SOOOOO many good, used boards out there for CHEAP. Makes it hard in many instances to pay full pop for a new board when you can get something reasonable for less than half the price. If you figure in used board sales it's probably not that bad

[yugi]

...
I just looked at the Naish site.  Raceboards, one 12'6 and one 14. That's it.  NOT a good sign.

I don't see the big deal.

They have a very nice race board that you can use in all conditions. In and out of races. They dropped those I wouldn't want and, it seems, their racers didn't want.

I think it's great that racing has gotten to a point where all-conditions boards work well. That serves the general SUP population very well.

I think it's great that there now is coverage of races broadcast so we can watch. I can't wait for some exciting coverage of downwind races. I suspect they'd be a lot more fun for non SUP racers to watch and would get more spancership. Even a bit more difficult to film.

[Admin]

BrownSugah, we should probably ask now.  Is this your blog?

When (you?) wrote the snip below can we assume this is just opinion?  I ask, because most of it is incorrect.  Are you sure you know what you think you know?

The SUP industry as a whole is in bad shape. Everyone and their moms are making boards and gear. Ask multiple brands and they will tell you “our boards are basically the same as (insert big brand design ) they are made in the same factory”. All of the integrity and purity seems to be stripped away. All of these brands are gobbling up kids and trying to find the next Kai Lenny by having them pay for race training while slapping stickers all over the kids to promote their board brand. I am not against team riders or starting them young but it seems so forced and the natural progression that once surrounded SUP also SUP racing has seem to come to a stand still.

[ukgm]

...
I just looked at the Naish site.  Raceboards, one 12'6 and one 14. That's it.  NOT a good sign.

I don't see the big deal.

They have a very nice race board that you can use in all conditions. In and out of races. They dropped those I wouldn't want and, it seems, their racers didn't want.

I think it's great that racing has gotten to a point where all-conditions boards work well. That serves the general SUP population very well.

I think it's great that there now is coverage of races broadcast so we can watch. I can't wait for some exciting coverage of downwind races. I suspect they'd be a lot more fun for non SUP racers to watch and would get more spancership. Even a bit more difficult to film.

If you use Starboard as a surrogate for a moment and see the difference in flatwater speed between their 'Sprint' and 'Ace' for example, then yes, the fact Naish have dropped the Javelin provides a concern that the flatwater javelin didn't sell well or wasn't designed well enough to suggest it had value. All water boards are not as fast as flatwater boards - its just some don't have the market to justify them. That is either by design or by mistake.

[Ichabod Spoonbill]

I wish there was half as much R&D at the beginner/intermediate level was there is at the advanced level. Those high-end boards have been evolving continuously, but things are a lot more static down below. Most people don't have a lot of money to spend on a new board.

[warmuth]

...
I just looked at the Naish site.  Raceboards, one 12'6 and one 14. That's it.  NOT a good sign.

I don't see the big deal.

They have a very nice race board that you can use in all conditions. In and out of races. They dropped those I wouldn't want and, it seems, their racers didn't want.

I think it's great that racing has gotten to a point where all-conditions boards work well. That serves the general SUP population very well.

I think it's great that there now is coverage of races broadcast so we can watch. I can't wait for some exciting coverage of downwind races. I suspect they'd be a lot more fun for non SUP racers to watch and would get more spancership. Even a bit more difficult to film.

If you use Starboard as a surrogate for a moment and see the difference in flatwater speed between their 'Sprint' and 'Ace' for example, then yes, the fact Naish have dropped the Javelin provides a concern that the flatwater javelin didn't sell well or wasn't designed well enough to suggest it had value. All water boards are not as fast as flatwater boards - its just some don't have the market to justify them. That is either by design or by mistake.

  Unless you own and are going to transport two boards to every race a flatwater board is not a wise purchase. My flatwater board sees use maybe 50% of the time. All water boards are fast enough for the non split hairs crowd.

[Eagle]

Too bad Naish dropped the Jav.  But every brand has to make business decisions that work for them.  Others have the FW spectrum covered anyways. 

Personally we like the design variations btwn FW to AW to DW boards.  So more options the better for us.  But can say the closest to a single board quiver we have is the AS23.  Not slug-like on flat -> yet can handle moderate waves and wind perfectly fine.

But if we had mostly flat conditions would go for the Sprint or Vortex type.  Or mostly DW conditions would go for the Bullet or M14 type.  So we like lots of variety and more choices vs less.  Hopefully Naish keeps the Maliko as it looks like an ok board.  But heard past carbon designs were somewhat fragile.  They may have changed their lay-up again for 2018 to make their boards last a bit longer.

From our perspective -> boards should last a long time with only minor wear and tear.  Ours have suffered only cosmetic damage and are all still perfect otherwise.

[robon]

Makes sense that the industry overall has slowed down after 10 years of growth, but I don't think the inland market has quite peaked yet. I'm approximately an 8 hour drive from the coast and growth is still very apparent inland BC. Inflatables are becoming more popular, and all water composite boards are far and away the most popular boards. Big box store cheap, all water models are more popular in the last couple of years than ever before inland. I have seen an increase in river paddling from touring to white water recently as well. Small market, but definitely on the rise.

[ukgm]

...
I just looked at the Naish site.  Raceboards, one 12'6 and one 14. That's it.  NOT a good sign.

I don't see the big deal.

They have a very nice race board that you can use in all conditions. In and out of races. They dropped those I wouldn't want and, it seems, their racers didn't want.

I think it's great that racing has gotten to a point where all-conditions boards work well. That serves the general SUP population very well.

I think it's great that there now is coverage of races broadcast so we can watch. I can't wait for some exciting coverage of downwind races. I suspect they'd be a lot more fun for non SUP racers to watch and would get more spancership. Even a bit more difficult to film.

If you use Starboard as a surrogate for a moment and see the difference in flatwater speed between their 'Sprint' and 'Ace' for example, then yes, the fact Naish have dropped the Javelin provides a concern that the flatwater javelin didn't sell well or wasn't designed well enough to suggest it had value. All water boards are not as fast as flatwater boards - its just some don't have the market to justify them. That is either by design or by mistake.

  Unless you own and are going to transport two boards to every race a flatwater board is not a wise purchase. My flatwater board sees use maybe 50% of the time. All water boards are fast enough for the non split hairs crowd.

I agree. Flatwater boards are only going to see use by serious racers most of the time. If I didn't race, I wouldn't even consider one.

[UKRiverSurfers]

Well - I aint read the thread or the article but basically, especially in the UK, SUP is owned by Facebook. Thats about it. Whatever facebooks AI decides is why the UK SUP Scene does. Nobody really believes it at the moment but thats the size of. If Facebook goes - so will SUP in the UK. That will be a good thing in many ways because it may kill the Balloon SUP market??t

[UKRiverSurfers]

I think his comments are reasonable. Firstly, participation sports are booming here but the sport is not engaging with this. It's focus is in the wrong place.  I have written an article in a mag coming up on the subject.

Secondly, the race board market is about to disintegrate. Look at the big players - fanatic have just opted for colourways changes for 2018, starboard apparently have years of a contrived orchestrated and fabricated r&d process sketched out and Naish butchered their line up down to just one model. Does this sound healthy ?

Maybe now we have a good experienced person with a voice - Tidz - that may change.

[UKRiverSurfers]

...
I just looked at the Naish site.  Raceboards, one 12'6 and one 14. That's it.  NOT a good sign.

I don't see the big deal.

They have a very nice race board that you can use in all conditions. In and out of races. They dropped those I wouldn't want and, it seems, their racers didn't want.

I think it's great that racing has gotten to a point where all-conditions boards work well. That serves the general SUP population very well.

I think it's great that there now is coverage of races broadcast so we can watch. I can't wait for some exciting coverage of downwind races. I suspect they'd be a lot more fun for non SUP racers to watch and would get more spancership. Even a bit more difficult to film.

If you use Starboard as a surrogate for a moment and see the difference in flatwater speed between their 'Sprint' and 'Ace' for example, then yes, the fact Naish have dropped the Javelin provides a concern that the flatwater javelin didn't sell well or wasn't designed well enough to suggest it had value. All water boards are not as fast as flatwater boards - its just some don't have the market to justify them. That is either by design or by mistake.

  Unless you own and are going to transport two boards to every race a flatwater board is not a wise purchase. My flatwater board sees use maybe 50% of the time. All water boards are fast enough for the non split hairs crowd.

I agree. Flatwater boards are only going to see use by serious racers most of the time. If I didn't race, I wouldn't even consider one.

You would if you were board of plodding the Thames at a snails pace... Its the crappy all rounder iSUPs that our inland paddlers will soon get bored of - then they may try and surf them too and get a bad surf experience. Problem is we don't have any speed needles on offer. I know for a fact plenty of my swim customers just taking to SUP will soon wanna spend a few thousand of a hollow mean machine but were do they get one?? They aint borrowing mine

[ukgm]

...
I just looked at the Naish site.  Raceboards, one 12'6 and one 14. That's it.  NOT a good sign.

I don't see the big deal.

They have a very nice race board that you can use in all conditions. In and out of races. They dropped those I wouldn't want and, it seems, their racers didn't want.

I think it's great that racing has gotten to a point where all-conditions boards work well. That serves the general SUP population very well.

I think it's great that there now is coverage of races broadcast so we can watch. I can't wait for some exciting coverage of downwind races. I suspect they'd be a lot more fun for non SUP racers to watch and would get more spancership. Even a bit more difficult to film.

If you use Starboard as a surrogate for a moment and see the difference in flatwater speed between their 'Sprint' and 'Ace' for example, then yes, the fact Naish have dropped the Javelin provides a concern that the flatwater javelin didn't sell well or wasn't designed well enough to suggest it had value. All water boards are not as fast as flatwater boards - its just some don't have the market to justify them. That is either by design or by mistake.

  Unless you own and are going to transport two boards to every race a flatwater board is not a wise purchase. My flatwater board sees use maybe 50% of the time. All water boards are fast enough for the non split hairs crowd.

I agree. Flatwater boards are only going to see use by serious racers most of the time. If I didn't race, I wouldn't even consider one.

You would if you were board of plodding the Thames at a snails pace... Its the crappy all rounder iSUPs that our inland paddlers will soon get bored of - then they may try and surf them too and get a bad surf experience. Problem is we don't have any speed needles on offer. I know for a fact plenty of my swim customers just taking to SUP will soon wanna spend a few thousand of a hollow mean machine but were do they get one?? They aint borrowing mine

This problem is compounded by the fact that the secondhand market is awful. I can see an Allstar in mere days but you'll be lucky to see 30-40% of its original RRP (even after just a few months of ownership). Other brands struggle to sell at all. I know of two 2017 starboard sprints trying to be sold secondhand for 50% of their RRP and they aren't shifting. If you know you can get a bargain (or will struggle to sell
 a model secondhand), why buy new at all ?

[UKRiverSurfers]

To be honest - the SB offerings weren't on my thought patterns when I said speed needle. I honestly don't rate any of the recent SB designs. They are just a bunch of dogs chasing their tails. Anyone who has been on the water over the last thirty decades can see that.

I was thinking more - hollow, ultralight, super fast, etc etc.

I have customers on 100-200k per year and they are buying Red iSUPs and they believe  that is the extent of the market. One guy just spent 2000 quid on his bike wheels. Like you said - its aimed at the wrong place. And as you also said - you wouldn't bother getting one?? Thats because you've never tried one and thats because they aren't readily available.

[UKRiverSurfers]

I wanna see you in 24k Juliets next mag btw @ukgm