cuting vs sanding

[Yohan1973]

This might sound like a silly question/statement but it’s one that has been on my mind. I’ve never shaped a board before so be forewarned that these are the words of an outsider trying to get in! In my profession we sometimes make models out of foam. We use hot wire cutters. Most board shapers who work with the same types of foam seem to prefer hack saws, planners, and sand paper. How much can these two forms be mixed? I mean, it would be easy to make a hot wire bow large enough to work with a blank (I think). In my mind more hotwire work means less sanding. Less sanding means less mess. It seems to me that sanding and planing is more nostalgic. It’s the traditional way to go. It does seem to offer more control in that it forces you to work slower but is there a happy medium? Do any of you experienced builders mess around with hotwire cutters? Why or why not? I'm sure that no matter which methode is used primarily, end the end...you'll be doing some sanding though...

[Dwight (DW)]

Order Greg Loehrs shaping 101 video. You will be amazed at how easy it looks.

I've cut my hot wire templates and ordered my huge block foam. I should start hot wiring my 14 ft race SUP within a week.

I followed some of the rocker dimensions Segway blanks publishes. Their rocker profile matched the windsurfer I had in my garage. The windsurfer was a baseline for what a fast rocker profile is, in my mind anyway. When Segways rocker matched the windsurfer, I felt good about going with it. The only change I made was more nose rocker for big ocean swells.

[Allan Cheateaux]

Its all i what youre used to. I know a guy with a really cool hotwire rail band tool, but when you just want to get something shaped, the cost can be prohibitive. You also have to get rid of the hotwire "skin" by sanding anyways...


Its whatever youre comfy with.

[heave]

A big wire brush is another method if there's no power tools, or to add some more authenticity to it being handcrafted.

[Yohan1973]

You also have to get rid of the hotwire "skin" by sanding anyways...

That is a point that I never thought about.
Never heard it called "skin" but that's a good way to describe that "film" of melted shinny VOC stuff... lol

[PonoBill]

Most of the guys hat shape EPS boards start with a block and hotwire the blank from it using templates. Some go further and use hotwire tools to do rough shaping, but it seems like it's kind of a wash in terms of how much sanding you have to do. Probably mostly preference and experience.

[kingdavid]

Hi Guys,

I used to use the hot wire a lot. Now days I just order the blanks from White Hot Foam http://whitehotfoam.com/ with the rocker and foil already cut to within 1/4" of the final dimensions. Contact Daron Story at White Hot. His number is 805-207-2057. You will need to furnish either a 2D computer aided design file (CAD) or a detailed drawing with the rocker and foil you want. They offer 1, 1.5, and 2.0 lb. density foam. They make their own foam and it is really good. Tell Daron I sent you.

Dave Daum

[Sam Pa'e]

Aloha Yohan,
It seem that you have a lot of question to be answered......Are you willing to build a board from scratch? Be prepared to have a whole lot of "snow flakes" flying all over the place.

If you want I can help!.. I've been building boards from scratch, most out of construction scrap EPS foam.

                         

So what I'll do is cut up your question........and answer it to the best of my experience:

This might sound like a silly question/statement but it’s one that has been on my mind. I’ve never shaped a board before so be forewarned that these are the words of an outsider trying to get in! In my profession we sometimes make models out of foam. We use hot wire cutters.

I was just like you..I never shaped any board in my life. But heart, will, determination, and the willingness to learn is what drove me. But you have an edge........you have access to a hot wire. So you should try making your own board

Most board shapers who work with the same types of foam seem to prefer hack saws, planners, and sand paper.

These tools are fine to work with......but it will make a HELL OF A MESS. Your room will look like a snow storm.

How much can these two forms be mixed? I mean, it would be easy to make a hot wire bow large enough to work with a blank (I think). In my mind more hotwire work means less sanding. Less sanding means less mess.

That is correct.....a hot wire is easy to work with so you can mix these "two forms" and it's less messy. A micro fine shear form helps with less sanding

It seems to me that sanding and planing is more nostalgic. It’s the traditional way to go. It does seem to offer more control in that it forces you to work slower but is there a happy medium?

Sure there is a happy medium......The traditional way is slower if you don't know how to use a plainer. It takes Skil to know how to work it......with a hot wire you can cut a rocker and the plainer will do the rest...like bend rails, "V" bottom, double con-cave, and concave at the nose

Do any of you experienced builders mess around with hotwire cutters? Why or why not? I'm sure that no matter which methode is used primarily, end the end...you'll be doing some sanding though...

Yes I use hotwire all the time.......I rough cut my block into a blank w/rocker, then template my blank, plain & bend rails, and sand with one hundred grit.
 

Then once you learn all this, now you need to learn epoxy. But that's another story....

Or you can make it easier on yourself and order a blank from White Hot Foam http://whitehotfoam.com/ like Dave (kingdavid) said with rocker. That will cut your building time in half.

Needless I hope this helps.......

Aloha......Sam

[Yohan1973]

Sorry for the delayed response. WOW Sam, thanks for the info. You are one of the guys on this site whom I greatly respect (there are a lot a really great people here). So I truly appreciate the info. I took note from Goomba271 and contacted Home depo. Indeed they have some large blocks of construction foam for a low price. Low price is the way to go for me since I now have a wife-to-be who is mindful of my spending habits. lol For starters I might order a 12'x4'x'6" block. I was quoted 70 bucks for it. Can't find local stuff cheaper. Allan Cheateaux did his 14 footers without a stringer and I'm considering the same. I might go with 3 layers top, two layers bottom to stiffen it up and to protect rails since I'll be fishing it.
Sam I don't know what a micro fine shear is but I'll be looking into it. For me the easy part of this build will be the epoxy. The cutting will be the challenge. I've been working with epoxy for 3 years now. As a matter of fact the apartment smells like pop corn right now. I just finished making some lures from epoxy. I've been seeking out every image and video I can find on hot wire work and set ups. DW i might have to also order that reg Loehrs shaping 101 video too. Thanks.

Sam, what power source are you using for your large hot wire bow set-up?

kingdavid. I use CAD all day everyday at work. At first I wanted to do a 3d model and have it cut but then my wallet found out and kindly reminded me that the electric bill was already late. lol My original plain was to build a hybrid board. like a cross between a SUP and a kayak so that I could sit and stand. but that idea died quickly as did the 14 foot board. Well, I've got to go but thanks to all for the informative replies. I appreciate the info and the offers.

[Art]

Hey guys,

I've been lurking here for awhile, getting stoked to shape a SUP.

I've built a couple fishes, and the last one was from Home Depot EPS. I ended up using the hotwire for the rail bands. Saves a LOT of mess (Like Sam pointed out). I also used it to cut out the swallow tail (made sure to just cut near the lines, finished with a sanding block).

The cool thing is that the hotwire won't burn through masking tape, so you can tape off the rails - one strip on the deck and one on the rail (just lay it down where you'd put pencil marks if you were using a planer). The wire "rides" the strips of tape and cuts the foam. Note: Of course, the wire will burn the tape, but not in the short time it takes to drag the wire over it.

Here're a couple pics:

First band taped off:


First band cut:


Second band taped:


When you use profile templates to hotwire your blank out of a block, you're already way ahead in the foam dust mess department... If you cut your rail bands with your wire, it's just that much more foam you don't need to mow (and convert to "snow"). From there, you don't even need a planer, just a Surform and sanding blocks to finish.

Art

[Dwight (DW)]

 Thanks Art. Good tip.

[Sam Pa'e]

Aloha Yohon,
Sorry it took awhile to respond........I've been busy with building an "ama" for a sailing canoe. It's made out of a EPS 1.5lb. block. Were just about done and theses are the tool of my board building trade. 

Sam I don't know what a micro fine shear is but I'll be looking into it.

Here's the two different style shear form we use to shape our boards:

                                    
                                Regular Shearform                                        Micro fine Shearform

Now theses are the block sanders we use to shape our EPS foam. Theses are "Pleskunas" shaping blocks. They come in all shape and sizes for whatever shaping you desire.

                                    
Here's the link to this site http://wetsandsurfshop.blogspot.com/2008/03/pleskunas-design-shaping-tools.html

Sam, what power source are you using for your large hot wire bow set-up?

Now this is the way I cut EPS foam. This power source is NOT the most safest way to cut blanks....so we use a GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter) to turn on power source.

                                 

This power source is basically a 6/12volt battery charger with an amperage rate adjuster (2a-10a-50a). Now I don't highly recommend this as a power source for cutting EPS foam.

Anyway I hope this helps out in answering some of your questions........Good Luck!!!!

Aloha........Sam