Author Topic: Foil position on board  (Read 1641 times)

sharksupper

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Foil position on board
« on: August 24, 2017, 01:03:18 PM »
I looked at all the topics and haven't seen this one discussed yet.

I'm about to stick on a Lift 170 SUP foil using a Foilmount stick-on pad to a 2011 Naish Hokua 8'5 x 28, 115L board.  I'm about 175lbs.  I'm in NorCal so will be riding a little faster waves.

I'm trying to decide where to stick on this pad, as you get just one shot at it.

Go Foil are really the only ones who have a suggestion chart for position, but of course their foils are deep tuttle.  If I measured everything right their measurement suggestion to measure from the tail to the back of the tuttle box would be about 3-1/6" shorter than to the center of the box/mast (A more universal measurement).  So if I add that to their suggestions I get about 24.7" to the center of the mast for my board.

Foilmount swiped the same chart from Go Foil for their suggestions, except they have you measure to the rear of the stick on pad, which doesn't make sense to me since that would put the foil about 2.3" farther forward than Go Foils actual recommendation (measuring to center of the mast for comparison).

I have identified some things to possibly consider.  When riding, most people seem to have their front foot just in front of the handle.  Not sure how consistent that is.  I also noticed on my board the rocker has a very defined steep drop off in the tail right about where the front fins (quad) start.  Due to the mount type I'm going to need to stay in front of this spot.  If I follow these two reasoning's the Go Foil converted suggestion seems to fit fine.  I'm basically sticking the back of the pad just in front of where the steeper tail rocker starts.  On my board that is 18.75" from the tail.  This is where I'd be sticking the rear of the Foilmount pad to have the mast centered in the mount at the suggested measurement.

Attached are a couple pics showing the position, with one having the mast as far back as it will go and one with it as far forward as it will go (about a 2" total travel choice).

BTW, this Lift foil is one sexy looking product, very clean and stiff.  Can't wait to get it wet!!!

So am I nuts or does this look like a reasonable mounting position?
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 01:05:43 PM by sharksupper »

PonoBill

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Re: Foil position on board
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2017, 01:59:27 PM »
As good as any, though it's just a guess. I don't think much of those stick-on thingies--seems like a good way to delam your board, but we'll ignore that. The foot position depends on the front wing's position on the fuselage. If you look at windsurf fuselages you find the wing is set way forward--because most windsurfers already have a Tuttle box for their fin. GoFoils have a very short fuselage in front of the mast--like nothing. I think the idea is to have your rear foot centered over the trailing edge of the wing, and your front foot far enough forward to control pitch with weight shift using your hips. As far as what that means on your board, you need to be able to paddle the board and trim it with your feet in that position. If you mount the mast (and therefore the wing) too far back you won't be able to get the board going. Most of the location stuff is about paddling the board with your feet in the right places, so it's board-dependent. A square tailed board can have the mast further back. If the mast is too far forward you won't be able to increase the AOA by leaning back a little (hence Brett Lickles step board with an angled tail). Once you're in the air you wish most of the board would just go away.

I'm really struggling to understand why anyone would do the stick-on. If you use a foil with a mounting plate (as yours has) you can use long mast bases and move the mast perhaps six inches front or back to tune for your board.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 02:01:29 PM by PonoBill »
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Dwight (DW)

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Re: Foil position on board
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2017, 03:04:34 PM »
Gong publishes dimensions too.

You're right, front foot in front of handle, back foot over mast, to slightly behind mast. Figure out your stance width at those two rear foot positions to confirm everything is comfortable. Stick the mount

sharksupper

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Re: Foil position on board
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2017, 05:13:38 PM »
Got it, so you want to be standing in the foiling position at take off.  Makes a lot of sense, because moving your feet around as you take off is probably going to upset things a lot. 

I haven't ridden this board in ages, so I might need to go regular surf it again and see where I can paddle/drop-in in surf stance comfortably.  Although it's 20L more than my current board so should be a pretty wide range.

With regards to the Foilmount... I don't like that it is a Band-Aid type solution, but it seems to work for others.  I just wanted to get this thing going quickly without hassle or excessive cost.  I'm also not sure I'm going to use this board for more than just learning, so seemed like a waste to butcher it with more boxes.  I don't have anyone close who can do the work and it would take me weeks to get something like that done decently.  If it blows then I'll be putting the boxes in anyway.  We'll see I guess... I have no idea what will happen.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 05:15:32 PM by sharksupper »

Newps

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Re: Foil position on board
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2017, 11:44:48 AM »
**  I'm really struggling to understand why anyone would do the stick-on. If you use a foil with a mounting plate (as yours has) you can use long mast bases and move the mast perhaps six inches front or back to tune for your board.  **

They sound really attractive to me.  If I had a good sandwich construction board I would use it.  The adjustability is great but really is comes down to cost.  Tuttle box installation is not cheap.  Add that to convenance (stick it on and ready to foil in a day) and being able to remove it.  I think for anyone who is new to foiling being able to stick this on a big board learn to foil, then pay for a quality mount on a smaller board makes a lot of sense financially.  The one other wild card out there, is the surf/sup foil technology is evolving.  Who knows what it will be in 6 to 12 months?
L41 SIMSUP S4 - 7'4" x 30 1/4" x 4 1/2" 112L
L41 SIMSUP S5 - 7'6" x 27 1/2" x 4 3/16" 106L
L41 SIMSUP S4 - 7'8" x 31"x 4 1/2" 122L - Modded w/ a King's TUT Tuttle box and using a King's foil.
L41 SIMSUP S4 - 7'10" x 30 1/4" x 4 1/2" 120L

PonoBill

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Re: Foil position on board
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2017, 02:18:03 PM »
I don't doubt the strength of the mount, but I wouldn't expect to be able to remove it. I'd be most concerned about the strength of the bottom of the board. I've seen all kinds of Tuttle and mast track installations now, and most of them look a little sketchy to me, but they're working, so what the heck.
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sharksupper

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Re: Foil position on board
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2017, 03:17:17 PM »
Thanks for the suggestions guys. 

Taking into account mainly the fact that you don't want to be shuffling your feet around when dropping in with a foil and that most people seem to have their front foot in front of the handle (mid point of the board weight/volume wise) when riding the foil with the rear foot either over or just behind the foil for the most part (I've seen some of pcis/vids with people having the rear foot well in front of the foil, but I will ignore for now) I have moved my foil position more forward to match those ideals.  What do you know, it's now at 22" like suggested!!!  Damn, I'm good at overthinking things!!   :-[   If you ever need help with over thinking, give me a ring! 

Going to stick this puppy on tonight!  Looking forward to getting my ass handed to me until I get the hang of it.   :P  Hopefully no foil enemas!!
« Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 03:19:36 PM by sharksupper »

Newps

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Re: Foil position on board
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2017, 06:34:29 PM »
I don't doubt the strength of the mount, but I wouldn't expect to be able to remove it. I'd be most concerned about the strength of the bottom of the board. I've seen all kinds of Tuttle and mast track installations now, and most of them look a little sketchy to me, but they're working, so what the heck.

I agree and have the same concerns as well.  My thoughts are, a beginner is not putting much stress on the foil mount. As long as then don't hit the bottom while foiling with significant force I think it's ok.  The cost to repair any damage can be off set by just adding a Tuttle box at that time. 
L41 SIMSUP S4 - 7'4" x 30 1/4" x 4 1/2" 112L
L41 SIMSUP S5 - 7'6" x 27 1/2" x 4 3/16" 106L
L41 SIMSUP S4 - 7'8" x 31"x 4 1/2" 122L - Modded w/ a King's TUT Tuttle box and using a King's foil.
L41 SIMSUP S4 - 7'10" x 30 1/4" x 4 1/2" 120L

StandinDan

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Re: Foil position on board
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2017, 09:46:47 AM »
I was checking out the stick on pads yesterday and was told that they are not removable.

sharksupper

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Re: Foil position on board
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2017, 10:05:18 AM »
I chatted with the guy at Huston Kiteboarding and he said they're about to release a cheap kit to remove the pads.  It's something like a wedge shaped air or water (I can't remember) cutter.  He said there was also a drill attachment to remove the rest of the adhesive gunk from the board surface cleanly. 

The adhesive pad is also about 1/16" thick, I was thinking I could use my hot wire cutter to just cut/melt through the foam-like adhesive layer if need be.

supuk

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Re: Foil position on board
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2017, 10:15:28 AM »
if you want to remove one get some braded wire fishing trace and use it as a cheese wire to just slice under it, it doesn't need to be hot. should take 30sec plus about 1h to remove all the gunk left behind.

StandinDan

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Re: Foil position on board
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2017, 10:17:32 AM »
There are a couple of L41 production boards for sale down here. is that construction compatible with the sticky pad?

sharksupper

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Re: Foil position on board
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2017, 11:19:58 AM »
Sorry, I don't know enough about those boards to say.  Their website says "many construction types available".  I would check with them.  I'm using a Naish GT model, which is a wood sandwich, it is considered "safe" and so far mine isn't showing any signs of stress or failure.  Generally, I think the sandwich construction boards are ok, and if it's a single skin it probably depends on what time of construction was used.  L41 doesn't list any sandwich constructions on their about page, so it would be worth while checking with them first.

Stoke

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Re: Foil position on board
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2017, 10:09:55 PM »
Recommendations from Alex at GoFoil for distance from trailing edge of board to the trailing edge of Tuttle box for the following boards:

6'0" FCD Fark (19 3/4, 2 3/8) shortboard: 10"-12"

7'8" starboard hypernut: 21"-22"

I'm using the stick on pad for the Fark since it's too thin for a Tuttle box, will let you know how it goes. 


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supuk

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Re: Foil position on board
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2017, 02:48:53 AM »
Sorry, I don't know enough about those boards to say.  Their website says "many construction types available".  I would check with them.  I'm using a Naish GT model, which is a wood sandwich, it is considered "safe" and so far mine isn't showing any signs of stress or failure.  Generally, I think the sandwich construction boards are ok, and if it's a single skin it probably depends on what time of construction was used.  L41 doesn't list any sandwich constructions on their about page, so it would be worth while checking with them first.

personally I would not consider a wood sandwich board to be any better than pure glass, the wood is so thin it makes very little difference and often does not even have  any glass under it. It is quite often marketing bs  to make you think your getting more. when people talk about sandwich board being ok  for these stick on mounts it would be more like a windsurf construction that has 3-5mm of high density core between layers of glass or carbon.