Real World- High Performance/Low Volume SUS Strategies

[southwesterly]

 I have started to get the "long board flip" down pretty well from the tail on Speeed and Steve's Hammer.

You can start calling it your Hammer now Carl. The check has cleared.

You've been looking good on it too.

[SUPcheat]

Mah Hammer!

I was sick as a dog last week with protracted stomach flu. Vomited my guts out Monday,  I couldn't be away from the toilet for more than 30 minutes for four days, and I still feel it today nine days later. Gator Ade and ramen soup saved my life.

Hope I can get out tomorrow.

[outcast]

PO...From another thread, I get where you are at...
I'm not having issues once up, but i figure that the pop-up or pop-up fail will determine my fun factor

I am working on those  Luckily my son had just challenged me on a push-up month, so that helped, but found this nugget on the Progression Project which rings true:


"From my best guess, I have about 1.5 seconds on the new Hobie to go from seated to standing with the first stroke in progress.  That’s if I do everything right.  If I don’t anticipate a small chop, or get weight too far forward, it can be over well before that time.  Everything happens faster.  By the time I’ve started the pop up my tail is already sinking.  Keeping weight on the back foot allows the nose to say up, so you can pull yourself out of the water with a stroke, but weighting the tail also allows the board to sink faster.  If you don’t have the blade in the water before the nose is under water the chance of getting up drastically decreases.  Luckily I have a process for popping up.  Back foot under butt, paddle in right hand, held at grip, both hands on deck, front foot though arms to stringer, pop up in surf stance while reaching with the paddle for the first stroke.  The process works and I don’t have to think about it."
E.A.

[Zooport]

PO...From another thread, I get where you are at...
I'm not having issues once up, but i figure that the pop-up or pop-up fail will determine my fun factor

I am working on those  Luckily my son had just challenged me on a push-up month, so that helped, but found this nugget on the Progression Project which rings true:


"From my best guess, I have about 1.5 seconds on the new Hobie to go from seated to standing with the first stroke in progress.  That’s if I do everything right.  If I don’t anticipate a small chop, or get weight too far forward, it can be over well before that time.  Everything happens faster.  By the time I’ve started the pop up my tail is already sinking.  Keeping weight on the back foot allows the nose to say up, so you can pull yourself out of the water with a stroke, but weighting the tail also allows the board to sink faster.  If you don’t have the blade in the water before the nose is under water the chance of getting up drastically decreases. 

Yes, this is exactly what I was talking about.  Good insight.

[surfshaver]

My recent experience can relate to this thread.  This year I stepped down from a 9'2"/124 liter JL Stun Gun to a 7'10"/115 liter L41 Popdart.  I still haven't put enough time on the new board, but I can say these things to be true:

Length seems to matter as much or more as volume when you're going below 8 feet.  All your motions/actions have to be smaller, more compact, and better balanced.  I recently demo'd an 8'8" Sunova Acid that is only 113 liters, technically less volume than the L41, and I had no difficulty paddling and riding it in overhead surf right off the bat.

Even though the L41 is wide/tomo style, it has enough rocker that it doesn't glide very well and you have to take off very close to proners, which can be tough to get used to in crowds.  Also, you have to have greater anticipation with sets because you can't cover as much ground to catch waves when you're out of position.  And you have to put yourself in perfect position to catch the wave, much like when you're prone paddling.

Overall, I'm catching less waves.  It can be frustrating at times.  But I really love the way the board feels on the wave, so I'm going to try to continue and get better. 

[SUP Leave]

This is a really interesting thread so far. Good on you guys for pushing your limits. I don't have anything near a SUP this small but I have tried plenty times to stand on my daughter's SUP. It is just a Bic slug with a deck pad. Can only stand briefly if I start out prone paddling.

1.5 seconds to stand and start paddling seems impossible! Can you prone or knee paddle to generate speed, then pop up to SUP? You would have to snatch the paddle on your way up, but you would get longer to get balanced while you slowed down.

Then again, if you are sitting in the main lineup with the guys laying down, wouldn't it just be more fun to ditch the paddle? I have always thought the fun part was being able to get in waves early sacrificing performance for longer rides? What am I missing?

Joe Blair makes funboards that have SUP dimensions. http://jblairsurf.com/surfboards/big-guy-surfboards . They are wide and 4" thick and have carry handles like SUPs. Volumes over 100 liter on a few.

I think it is a pretty interesting idea to make these truly high-volume boards in quad fins. Giving you the SUP feel underfoot, while not actually being a SUP. I saw a guy riding a small Jimmy Lewis 8' SUP as his surfboard. He had removed most of the pad and turned it into a wax board. I asked him about it and he was like "Yo, I love to surf but don't get out enough to be in surf shape, with this big wide sucker I just have to point myself in the right direction and stand up." He was ripping once he got up which got me thinking about something like that.

[Badger]

Then again, if you are sitting in the main lineup with the guys laying down, wouldn't it just be more fun to ditch the paddle?

I tried prone surfing my 8.4 last week. It wasn't fun at all. I was out of breath after just a few waves. It takes way too much effort and energy to go from a laying down position to standing up.

I thought, no wonder prone surfers only surf for an hour or two. It's an exhausting workout, and compared to stand up, it's not even a good workout.

I routinely do three, four, even five hour sessions standing up. I watch prone surfers come and go all morning long. I get more hours of surfing in, I catch a ton more waves than they do, and I'm 60 years old!

I try to tell people the advantages of stand up and they just don't get it. There is such a stigma against trying something new and breaking tradition that many are doomed to live in the past. I'm not saying everyone should give up prone surfing. They just need to add a stand up board to their quiver.

[outcast]

Before this thread i really hadn't read the Progression Project

I don't like his writing style, But in terms of "What am I  Missing?"  It's in that blog.....
His thing  " A race to the bottom"  is essentially...."far can you take it?"

The SUP skill set seems to me to be far more than just getting in early and getting long rides....I like being able to paddle out thru  whitewater...i like (thinking) that i can balance too small a board  .

Smaller stuff is not easier than prone........I'm not really into the distance thing   kinda get bored...so it's really just a different challenge subset of SUS...believe me, i like to pull out the longboard  ......

The windsurfers understand....there is a progression of skills......uphaul.....gybe....waterstart .....jump..... waveride .....backloop....frontloop etc
We have that... noseride...helicopters .airs  ..paddleswitches....and maybe stability drops. etc .....the other day, i was paddling and moving foward with the front half of the board consistently underwater....i don't know why i need that, but it may come in handy someday,,,,

So too each his own, but this is still a new sport and i don't think we even know where it will go....and yeah the smaller boards are twitchy fun  and kooklike at the same time...and yes..maybe once i hit bottom, i will rachet up a notch or two...but i want to know how low can you go.

[Biggreen]

Before this thread i really hadn't read the Progression Project


His thing  " A race to the bottom"  is essentially...."far can you take it?"

The SUP skill set seems to me to be far more than just getting in early and getting long rides....I like being able to paddle out thru  whitewater...i like (thinking) that i can balance too small a board  .

Smaller stuff is not easier than prone........I'm not really into the distance thing   kinda get bored...so it's really just a different challenge subset of SUS.

We have that... noseride...helicopters .airs  ..paddleswitches....and maybe stability drops. etc .....the other day, i was paddling and moving foward with the front half of the board consistently underwater....i don't know why i need that, but it may come in handy someday,,,,

So too each his own, but this is still a new sport and i don't think we even know where it will go....and yeah the smaller boards are twitchy fun  and kooklike at the same time

Amen brother. Last time I checked all this is a subjective endeavor. And we each like to challenge ourselves in different ways. Good on everyone for whatever the he'll you're doing. At least you're out there doing it. More than MANY can say.

[PonoBill]

Being close to the stringer is a big deal on any board. When I find myself bouncing around too much and struggling with balance I always find my feet are toward the edges. It seems to my brain that it would be easier, but it's not.

[surfcowboy]

I will counter that I've mostly converted back to prone surfing because I enjoy surfing a low volume board when waves get decent size.

As to fitness, I do both on long days but I'm personally way stronger in my upper body due to prone paddling. I'm 50 and doing it while I can but I'm going to try to keep in shape for this as it's changed my body for the better.

I think a combination of the two styles, for me, will be the way forward until my body won't let me. Maybe I'll be like Lopez and just keep it going or maybe my neck will give me trouble like some here and I'll switch to SUS full time again.

I went down to a 7'5" board and it's fun but I'm heading back up a bit myself. I can't stand a big production board as they are too corky for me now but a low volume but longer length, (8'6" or so) as has been noted here, seems right for me.

The 23" wide SUP is strange to me personally unless you just don't like SUP but can't surf prone anymore for health reasons. As has been said, if you're popping up, pop up. Why bother with a paddle?

I started paddling and never surfed before. Once I committed to learning to surf prone, it's took two years to build fitness but now I can surf competently as an intermediate and am starting to get a few lessons on more advanced tuning.

An 8' wavestorm funboard is far more maneuverable than any SUP that will ever be made. It's just harder to paddle lying down. I decided that the trade of standing on a small board wasn't worth it. For me, SUP means a board I can comfortably stand on and paddle at higher speeds throughout the lineup, catching waves earlier. I am willing to sacrifice performance on the wave for the overall experience. When I want to feel a tiny board under my feet, I go grab my prone board and swap.

Both... for as long as I can. And yeah, it's hard to paddle a surfboard but it's been a great challenge and made me get far stronger up top than I've ever been. SUS takes care of the lower half.

If you got into this from flat paddling and never surfed and are chasing the progression down, buy a cheap 8' funboard and spend a season busting it out on your belly. It'll change your life. And the older surfers here taught me that.

To me, it's the same as a guy who won't try standup when the waves are tiny or flat. Don't be stubborn about any of it. But I also think this is another reason why younger people aren't more into the sport. They don't have to be physically.

[surfafrica]

Great thread.

I'm moving my way down as well, but not to a ratio of 1.0. I'm looking to find a sweet spot on performance and fun and I think that ratio will be between 1.2-1.4 for me (depending on shape and conditions). 

I'm 148 lbs (67 kg).   I used to have an 8'6 x 30, 118 L RNB and then got a 7'6 x 28, 95 L RNB.  In normal conditions (exception being super choppy winter waters), my wave count didn't go down at all moving to the smaller version, but the performance boost really increased how much fun I had on a wave (big time) and the session overall.  One session really stood out where I was struggling a bit on my big board so I switched to my smaller one and started catching more waves (the waves stood up nicely so they were easy to catch with later drops). I ended up selling the big one, and now use my 7'6 RNB as my all-arounder (ratio of 1.4).

Later on, I picked up an 87 L board (7'5 x 26, 87 L, ratio 1.3--different shape though).  I started to notice things get a little more challenging, but I actually think the width drop has more to do with it. For my weight, 87 L offers pretty good float (rails under water, but my feet still above).  This board is soooo fun on the wave and in clean conditions, it catches waves pretty well (I can stand in the lineup without moving/bracing).  But, I've started to feel "the struggle" when in chop or with a winter suit on.  I do find when that struggle starts, the fun factor for the session goes down.  But overall, outside of winter, and when conditions are good, this board maintains the fun in the lineup and wave-catching and is super fun on the wave.

I still think I have some room to go down still within my sweet spot in clean conditions, but I don't think I can push it too much more.  I think close to a ratio of 1.0 would be tough if I want to keep that fun factor high.  ...but I'm also a guy that doesn't understand my cycling buddies when they describe their stoke for road biking by saying they like the suffering.  Sounds like some of you nanoSUPers enjoy the challenge for the challenge itself too.

[surfcowboy]

Should also add, don't mean to sound cranky lol. Ride what you like but just wanted to remind some of us who never prone surfed that there's a whole world to explore and the boards are by definition, "low volume"

Africa, interesting about the shorter but well shaped board being better at catching. That's a big deal I think. You can't just shrink any board and get a winner. It takes skill to shape something that works. That's a great point to make.

[Billekrub]

Paddle On, I did the same progression as you.  I went through 7 boards starting at 10'3 X 34 and ended with a 7'3 X 28 board.  It was fun for awhile, but I began to realize two things: 

1. The smaller I went, the less fun I had.  Waves are difficult to catch and you miss a bunch.  Once on the wave, the small boards are great but they make it tough to catch waves.  As TallDude says, you have to sit way inside of everyone else and I ended up getting in the way of other SUP surfers. 

2. My problem with turning bigger boards was lack of skill.  As my skill has increased, I find that I can turn big boards just fine.  I still occasionally ride my 7'4 Jammer, but I have the most fun on my 9'8 X 30 Starboard Element. 

So good luck on your quest for the best size board for you.  You may come to different conclusions than I did.

So, do you get all the way back on the board to turn, with your front foot weighted more heavily and rear foot to the appropriate side?  Ref. Progression Project critique.

[eastbound]

you guys've got me to thinking of riding prone again

i have a new funboard--sunova--"wavecatcher"--bot it for my proner brother, but i have access---thing is easily the prettiest board ive ever seen--7.0 i believe

ima take it out tomorrow!