Author Topic: Real World- High Performance/Low Volume SUS Strategies  (Read 13744 times)

Paddle On

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
    • View Profile
Real World- High Performance/Low Volume SUS Strategies
« on: June 09, 2017, 01:05:20 PM »
My buddy tried to make me admit i have a board problem, based on the rate i have been buying smaller and smaller boards. in fact most of my buds are telling me i am wasting time and money, but this has not slowed me down.

i tell him i am in full-on go for it mode! this is my season to push my limits.

i am just now getting pretty comfy on the starboard pro 8.5 x 29 112L, next week i am getting Infinity RNB 7'11" x 28" 98L. i realize this is a huge leap and am more than willing to put in the time and effort i.e. plop, plop, fizz, fizz.

i am looking for hints and help from those who have gone before me on a board that is beginning to approach the 1:1 volume:mass.

paddling out: looking at the pros, they do a lot of paddling out prone, foot position when standing?
between sets: i am thinking i may be able to stand if i keep moving, foot position, but fully prepared to sit between sets
taking off : foot position, assuming later take-offs, weight forward/back. a bit concerned with tangling up with proners if i am in the line-up

i am prepared for this to be an end-of-season, when i am in good shape during glassy days.

any hints/discussion appreciated, thanks
Paddle On 6'1", 215lbs - Portal Barra 7.11, Infinity 8.2 RNB, Portal Phantom 8.3, Infinity B-line 8.5, Infinity 10.0 New Deal, Sunova 11.0 Style, Starboard 9.0 Hero, Black Project Surge Paddle

p06781

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Real World- High Performance/Low Volume SUS Strategies
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2017, 01:20:45 PM »
Hopefully you have read through http://progressionproject.com/

Erik has really worked on this.

Paddle On

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
    • View Profile
Re: Real World- High Performance/Low Volume SUS Strategies
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2017, 01:28:17 PM »
thanks for the link, i had not heard of this before. starting to give it a look.
Paddle On 6'1", 215lbs - Portal Barra 7.11, Infinity 8.2 RNB, Portal Phantom 8.3, Infinity B-line 8.5, Infinity 10.0 New Deal, Sunova 11.0 Style, Starboard 9.0 Hero, Black Project Surge Paddle

TallDude

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 5714
  • Capistrano Beach
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Real World- High Performance/Low Volume SUS Strategies
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2017, 01:59:57 PM »
Unless you have zen like amazing balance, you'll sit more or wear yourself out bracing and paddling in circles. You have to be even more selective as far as picking your spots. You'll be more inside, with zero glide, and most all the others in better position. BUT! once you're in the pocket, oh yeah.... :)
« Last Edit: June 09, 2017, 02:01:41 PM by TallDude »
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

Paddle On

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
    • View Profile
Re: Real World- High Performance/Low Volume SUS Strategies
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2017, 03:24:20 PM »
Paddling in circles, seems i have doing that my whole life.

ZERO glide!

i better bone-up on core engagement and stacking the shoulders.

i like that in the pocket part.................
Paddle On 6'1", 215lbs - Portal Barra 7.11, Infinity 8.2 RNB, Portal Phantom 8.3, Infinity B-line 8.5, Infinity 10.0 New Deal, Sunova 11.0 Style, Starboard 9.0 Hero, Black Project Surge Paddle

Biggreen

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 552
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Real World- High Performance/Low Volume SUS Strategies
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2017, 04:34:46 PM »
I'm 81 kg now and all the boards I ride are 79 to 93 liters depending on length with none over 27.5 wide.  I always go out standing because I'm stupidly stubborn.  And truth be told I like the fight on the paddle out. Helps me get my feet under me for the upcoming session. Always staggered stance all the time. Once outside I do a figure 8 sculling stroke most often just to help deal with the chop. Remember, with your paddle in the water and keeping pressure against the blade you have increased your effective width and therefore stability. And I find having my feet close together along the stringerline is more stable while waiting. What TD says is dead true...and fun. You will be further in and catching the waves steeper, which I love. I was out the other day and there were 4 or 5 proners near me. At one point one of them jokingly commented that something was amiss.....the sweeper was sitting inside of THEM. We all had a good laugh. For myself, when catching the waves I spread my stance lengthwise, the steeper, the more spread. Helps with balance because it makes you crouch and allows you to really dig on those waves that aren't quite so steep and it's easy to transition back once you take off.

When outside, if you get surprised by a bump, do you just fall or do you throw out a low brace to try and maintain your feet or just slow your fall? My suggestion is to practice always throwing that brace and if you're going down, go down as slowly as possible. You're brace needs to be second nature. Once it's habit you'll find it will help everything, your paddle out, being outside, dealing with the bump, getting your feet back under after you've done a hot move (something I have no experience with) and generally getting respect from the proners cause you're out there STANDING on a small board.....inside of them!

Good luck! Let us know how it goes!

Badger

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2662
  • Seacoast NH
    • View Profile
Re: Real World- High Performance/Low Volume SUS Strategies
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2017, 02:43:55 AM »

 And I find having my feet close together along the stringerline is more stable while waiting.

 For myself, when catching the waves I spread my stance lengthwise, the steeper, the more spread. Helps with balance because it makes you crouch and allows you to really dig on those waves that aren't quite so steep and it's easy to transition back once you take off.


I've been trying to get closer to the stringerline and into more of a surf stance when paddling for waves. Which way are your toes pointing when you do this?

Kalama E3 6'1 x 23" 105L
Axis HPS 980 / PNG 1300
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Me - 6'0" - 165lbs - 66yo

SUPcheat

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2677
    • View Profile
Re: Real World- High Performance/Low Volume SUS Strategies
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2017, 07:58:13 AM »
I have seen you out there, Craig, and you look like you are enjoying yourself with the challenge, which is all that matters.

I went with Prowave, even though it was "challenge" range, because I wanted to learn how to turn.  I eventually did.

Now that I can turn, it seems strange, I can turn even the larger "Steve's Hammer" quite well. Since "turning in the pocket short board style" seems to be the main virtue of the shorter boards, I have relaxed a bit on my own "shorter" ambition and have called the 8.7 Flow my carrying limit for my flabaciousness and age *unless* I am just tempted to try a shorter Tomo type for shits and giggles later.

I can tell you have excellent balance skills, so I don't think your "shorter" ambitions are misplaced, at least until you get down to where you find it is just too much work for too little return.  It's fun watching you out there on your "challenge" boards.  If you have the energy and devotion, go for it.

2013 Fanatic Prowave LTD 9'3"x30.5x@134L
Sunova Speeed 8'10"x29.12@131L
Sunova Flow 8'7"x30.25"@121L
Carbon 9.3x32@163L Hammer
Me: 6'1"@230 lbs 68 years old

Biggreen

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 552
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Real World- High Performance/Low Volume SUS Strategies
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2017, 11:41:50 AM »

 And I find having my feet close together along the stringerline is more stable while waiting.

 For myself, when catching the waves I spread my stance lengthwise, the steeper, the more spread. Helps with balance because it makes you crouch and allows you to really dig on those waves that aren't quite so steep and it's easy to transition back once you take off.


I've been trying to get closer to the stringerline and into more of a surf stance when paddling for waves. Which way are your toes pointing when you do this?

Badger, when digging for a wave my back foot can be anywhere from slightly angled to almost dead in line with the stringer depending on how hard I'm having to try, and my front foot(left foot, I'm regular) will be angled toes to the right. On smoother days when the Karma gods are being kind I can often just catch waves from the closed/waiting stance. And then there are times when it seems I'm stumbling no matter what I do.

Badger

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2662
  • Seacoast NH
    • View Profile
Re: Real World- High Performance/Low Volume SUS Strategies
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2017, 11:57:20 AM »

 And I find having my feet close together along the stringerline is more stable while waiting.

 For myself, when catching the waves I spread my stance lengthwise, the steeper, the more spread. Helps with balance because it makes you crouch and allows you to really dig on those waves that aren't quite so steep and it's easy to transition back once you take off.


I've been trying to get closer to the stringerline and into more of a surf stance when paddling for waves. Which way are your toes pointing when you do this?

Badger, when digging for a wave my back foot can be anywhere from slightly angled to almost dead in line with the stringer depending on how hard I'm having to try, and my front foot(left foot, I'm regular) will be angled toes to the right. On smoother days when the Karma gods are being kind I can often just catch waves from the closed/waiting stance. And then there are times when it seems I'm stumbling no matter what I do.

Wow, that is a new style to me. I never thought of angling the front foot more than the rear. Just standing here at the computer it feels pretty solid. Can't wait to try it on waves.




Kalama E3 6'1 x 23" 105L
Axis HPS 980 / PNG 1300
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Me - 6'0" - 165lbs - 66yo

Zooport

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3533
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Real World- High Performance/Low Volume SUS Strategies
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2017, 01:21:36 PM »
Paddle On, I did the same progression as you.  I went through 7 boards starting at 10'3 X 34 and ended with a 7'3 X 28 board.  It was fun for awhile, but I began to realize two things: 

1. The smaller I went, the less fun I had.  Waves are difficult to catch and you miss a bunch.  Once on the wave, the small boards are great but they make it tough to catch waves.  As TallDude says, you have to sit way inside of everyone else and I ended up getting in the way of other SUP surfers. 

2. My problem with turning bigger boards was lack of skill.  As my skill has increased, I find that I can turn big boards just fine.  I still occasionally ride my 7'4 Jammer, but I have the most fun on my 9'8 X 30 Starboard Element. 

So good luck on your quest for the best size board for you.  You may come to different conclusions than I did.

8'6 Soul Compass
9'1 Sunova Creek
9'6 WaveStorm SUP
9'8 Starboard Element

SUPcheat

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2677
    • View Profile
Re: Real World- High Performance/Low Volume SUS Strategies
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2017, 02:04:25 PM »
Paddle On, I did the same progression as you.  I went through 7 boards starting at 10'3 X 34 and ended with a 7'3 X 28 board.  It was fun for awhile, but I began to realize two things: 

1. The smaller I went, the less fun I had.  Waves are difficult to catch and you miss a bunch.  Once on the wave, the small boards are great but they make it tough to catch waves.  As TallDude says, you have to sit way inside of everyone else and I ended up getting in the way of other SUP surfers. 

2. My problem with turning bigger boards was lack of skill.  As my skill has increased, I find that I can turn big boards just fine.  I still occasionally ride my 7'4 Jammer, but I have the most fun on my 9'8 X 30 Starboard Element. 

So good luck on your quest for the best size board for you.  You may come to different conclusions than I did.

Yup, I think that is paralleling my current experience.  Once you can turn, you can also start turning larger boards better.  I have started to get the "long board flip" down pretty well from the tail on Speeed and Steve's Hammer.

Shorter board means lower wave count, or you wind up trying to get late starts close to the pocket with the added liability of competing with the proners.  You wind up working harder for fewer experiences.  Also, lower glide.

However, I have to admit, that once on the wave, the 8.7 Flow is an absolute delight with its effortless turning arc and ability to tuck into the face of the wave.  That seems worth the effort at least when conditions are OK for the board.

I also think that the bigger you are, it exacerbates the wave entry even more, whereas going down to 1:1 guild factors is probably easier and more workable for smaller riders.
2013 Fanatic Prowave LTD 9'3"x30.5x@134L
Sunova Speeed 8'10"x29.12@131L
Sunova Flow 8'7"x30.25"@121L
Carbon 9.3x32@163L Hammer
Me: 6'1"@230 lbs 68 years old

Paddle On

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
    • View Profile
Re: Real World- High Performance/Low Volume SUS Strategies
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2017, 10:00:44 AM »
the learning curve seems pretty steep the last few months. right know i am having a blast challenging my balance skills and riding boards i never thought possible is a blast! i went out on the 8.5 in horrible gusty 15 knots, ultra soupy, current swirling conditions just for practice last week. not fun, but great learning.

one observation is foot position vs the big four: above the water (wind), on the surface (swell/chop/reflections), under the water (currents) and the direction of the waves. if only i could have one foot position that worked for all conditions! we wish. no, i almost always have to move my feet depending on all four of these. sometimes my front foot is 1" closer to the stringer, why? the big four. and it often is just micro adjustments depending on conditions. the biggest help for catching waves is to pivot my front foot, pivot at the heal and put my toes over the stringer as part of my pivot turn into the wave. this keeps me balanced for turning and catching waves. also, the smaller the board the less time needed for pivot turn. if i turn to early i over steer and am off balance. could write quite a bit on foot placement vs the four.

so far the 8.5 has not reduced my wave count at my local spots, except bolinas which is a mush burger wave and i will be taking longer boards, my 12' big easy is perfect.

i love using my paddle to flick arcing turns and pumping to make sections.

sounds like the evolution is to go smaller and smaller, then back up in size for more fun/less work. no doubt for me that when i go out and struggle on a small board, when i go back up in size the larger board feels super stable proving that going really small will make me better with larger SUS. at least a great benefit, i just wish it wasn't so damn expensive

picking up the little one later this week, will report back.

PO

btw - pretty epic swell predicted for fathers day here in norcal for south facing breaks........
Paddle On 6'1", 215lbs - Portal Barra 7.11, Infinity 8.2 RNB, Portal Phantom 8.3, Infinity B-line 8.5, Infinity 10.0 New Deal, Sunova 11.0 Style, Starboard 9.0 Hero, Black Project Surge Paddle

Zooport

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3533
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Real World- High Performance/Low Volume SUS Strategies
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2017, 07:48:07 AM »
8'5 is not that small yet.  I'm rooting for you when you go sub 8ft.  I found that all of a sudden, front to back balance was an issue, especially on the 7'3 or 7'4.  Then, I had to balance in 4 directions instead of 2.  However, the boards surfed just like traditional short surfboards, and riding waves was really fun.  It just got to be too much work to get on them. 

Please continue to document your small board experience for us.  I would like to re-live it it vicariously, because it was exciting and fun. 
8'6 Soul Compass
9'1 Sunova Creek
9'6 WaveStorm SUP
9'8 Starboard Element

Paddle On

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
    • View Profile
Re: Real World- High Performance/Low Volume SUS Strategies
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2017, 10:02:39 AM »
Fathers Day swell predict has backed off, it has been down graded to meh and is hitting on Saturday.
Paddle On 6'1", 215lbs - Portal Barra 7.11, Infinity 8.2 RNB, Portal Phantom 8.3, Infinity B-line 8.5, Infinity 10.0 New Deal, Sunova 11.0 Style, Starboard 9.0 Hero, Black Project Surge Paddle

 


SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal