Author Topic: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race  (Read 259569 times)

Area 10

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #945 on: March 18, 2019, 05:29:44 PM »
Anything that encourages the use of Unlimited class boards is a good thing IMO.

ukgm has always taken a position of no hope for himself in regard to board classes. A big unit like him would be far less disadvantaged if all races had UL classes, yet he was unwilling to race them. So now he’s not racing at all. I’m sure it makes sense to him :)

UL is the way to go for the long term future of SUP racing IMO. 12-6 and 14 are compromise sizes that wee chosen for no good reason, in the early days before racing had established itself. Now is the time to have a re-think.

It could probably start in Europe with UL inflatables. Once inflatables exist that are faster and more fun to paddle than the (14ft) hard boards on sale, things will change rapidly. And inflatables present none of the storage and transport problems of UL boards in high-density population areas. I’ve got a 16ft inflatable and it’s great. A slimmed down version with technical innovation to give greater rigidity would really fly in flat water.

If I was Naish or Starboard I’d promote a one-design series of races using an UL inflatable rather than the Naish 12-6. A 12-6 is always going to be behind the hard boards. But a good UL inflatable could take line honours at every race. And then everyone would want one.




« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 05:32:56 PM by Area 10 »

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #946 on: March 18, 2019, 11:39:16 PM »

With the above factors (as well as others in mind) it would seem logical that the SUP market would be seeing more Hollow UL boards sometime rather soon! After all, it would cater to heavier paddlers in a very nice way.
I don't see how. UL boards can't be raced in most events, downwinding is highly specialised arm of the market and hollow boards from the established brands would likely be ludicrously expensive. There is no market there. Hell, you'll be more likely to see an inflatable UL DW board first. Heavier recreational paddlers will be fine in the leisure class as things stand so much won't change there. Heavier elite paddlers will just be naturally selected out of the competitive sport though.

For the first time, the future of UL actually seems rather positive to me.
- We've all kind of agreed on the fact that more and more racers are "retiring" from racing (on 12'6 as well as on 14').
- Heavier paddlers are so much more at ease on UL boards - they are just not as penalised.

Perhaps the combination of older folks gaining weight (think BEER) with folks retiring from the racing scene will realise that there's a lot of fun to be had on ULs. This is obviously all speculation from my part, but you can't deny that it's possible.
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #947 on: March 18, 2019, 11:49:45 PM »
I would not mind a performance/fast light touring board. A kind of Glide Light or Javelin de-tuned. Pretty much a SIC RS with a tad less volume but without the race moniker to it, so it becomes available on the second hand market :-)
And that is something that could work well with the hollow construction of Nelo. They just have to go wider and make some nicer, cleaner lines. Simple is best.

Pure physics limitations will make it extremely difficult to create a hollow board that's: light, strong - but also LOW VOLUME.

That's a pile of rubbish. They've been selling those for years. Hollow, light, low volume & very strong

Congratulations: you have found one SUP manufacturer who will do supposedly build light, and strong low volume boards. The shape has a lot of very well thought out ideas... but:
- Have you ever paddled one?
- Have you ever even seen one?
- How do you know that it's strong?
- OK... it looks super light, but what are we talking about?

People will probably push the envelope as far as getting Hollow, light, low volume, and very strong... it's not impossible, but there's nothing easy about that combination - especially at a practical price range that will not exceed 4000 euros (at least based on today's euro value).

So while we'll both agree that yes, it's do-able:
- it may not be that feasible at a reasonable price
- there's nothing simple about such a construction
- yes, 3D stringers will help... but bing: there goes your cost.

Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #948 on: March 19, 2019, 12:19:04 AM »
Anything that encourages the use of Unlimited class boards is a good thing IMO.

ukgm has always taken a position of no hope for himself in regard to board classes. A big unit like him would be far less disadvantaged if all races had UL classes, yet he was unwilling to race them. So now he’s not racing at all. I’m sure it makes sense to him :)

UL is the way to go for the long term future of SUP racing IMO. 12-6 and 14 are compromise sizes that wee chosen for no good reason, in the early days before racing had established itself. Now is the time to have a re-think.

It could probably start in Europe with UL inflatables. Once inflatables exist that are faster and more fun to paddle than the (14ft) hard boards on sale, things will change rapidly. And inflatables present none of the storage and transport problems of UL boards in high-density population areas. I’ve got a 16ft inflatable and it’s great. A slimmed down version with technical innovation to give greater rigidity would really fly in flat water.

If I was Naish or Starboard I’d promote a one-design series of races using an UL inflatable rather than the Naish 12-6. A 12-6 is always going to be behind the hard boards. But a good UL inflatable could take line honours at every race. And then everyone would want one.

For once, I will agree with most of the above statements.

I think it's very important to add a list of reminders of how Unlimited boards with a rudder may soon excel in the World of non-racers:
Let's start by keeping in mind that : Non racers make up the majority of paddlers.

1- Very versatile: they can be the jack of all trades in a variety of conditions ranging from dead flat to great downwind.
2- You can replace a 14-footer flat water board with a DW Unlimited board (and still get similar speed) - but you can't replace a DW UL board with a 14' flat water board.
3- The same UL board you used on flat water long distance paddling can be used for touring or family fun. Try putting a family member on your 14x24, or try touring with a 12'6x23.5.
4- Humans seek improvements. UL can often time bring instant gratification (or at least speed increase without trying).
5- We know that heavier paddlers will usually do better on UL boards (average-speed-wise).
6- After extensive testing, we also know that lighter paddlers will be faster on FLAT WATER with a wide, "slow and sluggish" downwind UL board than on a flat water race board. It's a mouthful, but read it again, because in essence, you could replace two of your 14' boards with a single UL board.


Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

Jacko

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #949 on: March 19, 2019, 01:58:09 AM »
finally worked out this pic thing.

ONE Hollow unlimited!!

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #950 on: March 19, 2019, 02:01:04 AM »
1) Anything that encourages the use of Unlimited class boards is a good thing IMO.

2) ukgm has always taken a position of no hope for himself in regard to board classes.

3) A big unit like him would be far less disadvantaged if all races had UL classes, yet he was unwilling to race them. So now he’s not racing at all. I’m sure it makes sense to him :)

4) It could probably start in Europe with UL inflatables. Once inflatables exist that are faster and more fun to paddle than the (14ft) hard boards on sale, things will change rapidly.

5) If I was Naish or Starboard I’d promote a one-design series of races using an UL inflatable rather than the Naish 12-6. A 12-6 is always going to be behind the hard boards. But a good UL inflatable could take line honours at every race. And then everyone would want one.

1) Agreed.

2) With SUP being my second sport, I would be more competitive first if i just paddled more than I do. No board size is going to make up for the fact that I only paddle 4 hours a week and even then its typically as a rest day from my cycling. Training load and specificity trumps equipment choice. Even if I'd won more than I had, I'd still be winding it down. It's just run its course for me.

3) Unwilling as in only one race in the UK accepts them. We've discussed this before and me racing on a UL serves no purpose when a. it would take years to convince others to do the same (particularly when you acknowledge the stats of the Dart race you raised) and b. if i take 2) into account. Either way, my shift away from SUP racing has nothing to do with my lack of competitiveness and is everything to do with that surfsking is more fun and with higher speeds. It's more akin to my cycling in terms of what draws me in.

4) Possibly. I had a good look at the starboard Allstar UL last year and that was a fun looking board.

5) In my view, inflatable one-design racing is fine as it is. For example, the N1sco tight courses and formats that prove so popular with paddlers of all levels, just don't suit UL boards.

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #951 on: March 19, 2019, 02:10:34 AM »
You can do everything on an UL that you can do on a 12-6. It’s just that almost no-one is building UL boards that are intended to be able to do that. But it can, and in time will, be done.

You’d be much keener to continue SUP racing if you had an UL. Just go along and beat everyone. Who cares if you are DQ’ed? I can guarantee you that several others will soon follow. UL boards are just so much nicer to train on.

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #952 on: March 19, 2019, 02:43:25 AM »
1) You can do everything on an UL that you can do on a 12-6. It’s just that almost no-one is building UL boards that are intended to be able to do that. But it can, and in time will, be done.

2) You’d be much keener to continue SUP racing if you had an UL.

3) Just go along and beat everyone. Who cares if you are DQ’ed?

1) As I say, the race formats of inflatable one design suits the smallest practical board, not UL's. Could you - yes, should you, no - it doesn't make any sense as the only advantage is speed - which is irrelevant or relative when everyone is on the same board anyway.

2) No, I really wouldn't. It's not the equipment that is an issue for me, its the sport itself (and wanting to scratch a 20 year itch before my balance goes completely or I'm too old).

3) Well, I would ! There's no point being a lone wolf when you've got nobody to race on a level playing field. If I were just touring or training though, I can see the attraction. I can guarantee that nobody would follow. I've got more chance of people following me back to racing inflatables.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 02:45:48 AM by ukgm »

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #953 on: March 19, 2019, 05:25:15 AM »
The point isn’t speed, ukgm, it’s the pleasure of paddling. Unlimiteds are much nicer to use. Kinder on the body too. There are some folk like you who are driven by wanting to beat others. But 95% of paddlers just want to enjoy paddling. And an UL will give a lot more pleasure than a 12-6 in most circumstances, for a variety of reasons. That we all now use 14s is just a historical aberration to do (largely) with a marketing battle between brands in the early days of SUP. The standard size should probably be 16ft instead. It very easily could have been.

But if your main sport is a sitting-down one, I can see why you are attracted to another sitting-down sport (surfski).

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #954 on: March 19, 2019, 06:13:43 AM »
finally worked out this pic thing.

ONE Hollow unlimited!!

Looking good Jacko!  How does she paddle?

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #955 on: March 19, 2019, 06:52:13 AM »
Congratulations: you have found one SUP manufacturer who will do supposedly build light, and strong low volume boards. The shape has a lot of very well thought out ideas... but:
- Have you ever paddled one?
- Have you ever even seen one?
- How do you know that it's strong?
- OK... it looks super light, but what are we talking about?

People will probably push the envelope as far as getting Hollow, light, low volume, and very strong... it's not impossible, but there's nothing easy about that combination - especially at a practical price range that will not exceed 4000 euros (at least based on today's euro value).

So while we'll both agree that yes, it's do-able:
- it may not be that feasible at a reasonable price
- there's nothing simple about such a construction
- yes, 3D stringers will help... but bing: there goes your cost.

Nothing supposedly here. They've been selling these for years. Hollow light boards are nothing new. Nelo is a Johny come lately to the party.
I know these boards up close. Construction is top notch as one might expect from a renowned manufacturer of (what else) racing canoes.

Carbon/Kevlar/foam core composites at 24LB with an option for a lighter/stiffer construction. Cheaper than Nelo? for sure. Even cheaper than
say a 2019 Infinity Whiplash let alone a StarPrice.

And you guessed it, convex bottom with all that entails as one would expect from a Racing canoe designer. A unlimited at 18'6" and a more relaxed 14'
with a flatter bottom and square tail are also available. Pretty Sweet if that's a design you're after.

What I like about this manufacturer is, I can bring my own design and they will make a mold for it. If I can order 20 units it will be a reasonable price.

http://www.savageriver.com/sups/edge
in progress...

Area 10

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #956 on: March 19, 2019, 07:08:35 AM »
Never mind that one, what about this one?

http://www.savageriver.com/sups/needle

Oh my Lord.

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #957 on: March 19, 2019, 07:36:36 AM »
2) With SUP being my second sport, I would be more competitive first if i just paddled more than I do. No board size is going to make up for the fact that I only paddle 4 hours a week and even then its typically as a rest day from my cycling.

Problem solved for Bryce. Also come in a hollow construction with checker stripe.
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Sunova Torpedo 14'x27" 286L Salish 500
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Area 10

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #958 on: March 19, 2019, 07:51:00 AM »
2) With SUP being my second sport, I would be more competitive first if i just paddled more than I do. No board size is going to make up for the fact that I only paddle 4 hours a week and even then its typically as a rest day from my cycling.

Problem solved for Bryce. Also come in a hollow construction with checker stripe.
:) :) :) I’d bet he’d beat just about anyone on that thing :)


ukgm

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #959 on: March 19, 2019, 07:54:13 AM »

Problem solved for Bryce. Also come in a hollow construction with checker stripe.

(where's the 'like' button !)

 


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