Author Topic: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race  (Read 259384 times)

Area 10

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #720 on: March 06, 2019, 04:46:47 PM »
SIC Maui give a list here of the pros and cons of custom hollow boards vs. foam. It is interesting that they say that the foam boards are lighter than the hollow ones (which in turn are lighter than Asia made ones). So it looks like if you really care about weight above all else, maybe go foam custom. Two of the advantages of hollow they list as being that they are used more resistant to heat, and having a stronger skin. So the main advantages of a hollow board as far as SIC are concerned are to do with durability not weight. Oh, and they are quicker to build.

https://www.sicmauicustom.com/collections/hollow-molded

Btw there are some truly beautiful custom boards in the SIC gallery on that website.

Jacko

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #721 on: March 06, 2019, 05:27:54 PM »
Advantages for the hollow DW? here is just a few.

*All the weight in the standing area.

*Having very little weight in the nose area makes the boards super responsive.

*The feel of how the board handles the bumps is unlike nothing else and very hard to describe.

We are not talking 6 or 7kg boards these boards will range between 10 to 13kg so they still have some weight and if anything hollow could have a far bigger advantage in the ocean than the flat.
This is only the start for us and if the market is there we will invest in flatwater boards as well but as it has been talked about here before making only one or two is not very cost efficient.

More than happy though if a bunch of people come to me and want a certain kind of board hollow and see ways to make it work. It's only early for us but on the boards we have made i love the feeling.

You could just send a downwind prototype to David and Peter in Squamish/Vancouver. :-)
Would be delighted to take it on an outflow to experience what you just commented on.

Does not matter if the nose is green or purple/pink :-)

Bugger i was about to send one over but the ones i have are red and blue!! oh well maybe next time.

Luc Benac

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #722 on: March 06, 2019, 05:31:22 PM »
Does not matter if the nose is green or purple/pink :-)
Bugger i was about to send one over but the ones i have are red and blue!! oh well maybe next time.

Just take your sunglasses of - color is relative - just send it over. We have had some good outflow most of the winter....
Sunova Allwater 14'x25.5" 303L Viento 520
Sunova Torpedo 14'x27" 286L Salish 500
Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L Andaman 520
Sunova Steeze 10' x 31" 150L
Blackfish Paddles

JEG

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #723 on: March 06, 2019, 06:08:24 PM »

Area 10

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #724 on: March 06, 2019, 10:03:17 PM »
on the hollow subject  :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pHlFYu57dQ
You clearly haven’t read page 47 of this thread...

It looks like the hollow construction of this board (or rather, the light weight that results from it) would be one reason why many people would buy this board. And also a reason why many wouldn’t (including me). It is often said that perfection is the enemy of the good. Many of us older guys who have the disposable income to be able to afford a board like this, can only aim for good, realistically.

photofr

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #725 on: March 06, 2019, 11:40:31 PM »
@UKGM: Great video.
Rest assure: your Nelo hollow board will float, even if it fills with water.
It uses a foam core sandwich construction (closed cell sandwich) which has nothing to do with styrofoam in terms of longevity.

@Area: You don't need to wait 50 seasons to buy a hollow board at a discounted price. Contact me at ludovic@photofr.com if you want to purchase one right NOW :)

--------

I think we will be seeing a lot more hollow boards in the future, but it will take someone with tons of experience in the foam-sandwich-hollow-construction to make a light and STRONG board like the Nelo boards.

My signature board is still racking tons of mileage all over France right now, and all throughout Winter. It's still super light, and it still looks like new (every time I clean it).
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

Area 10

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #726 on: March 07, 2019, 12:28:56 AM »
Thanks for the offer photofr, but our needs and wants in terms of boards are very different.

Let me know when Nelo finally makes a hollow board that I would enjoy paddling. In the meantime, I’m happy to leave this to the lucky few elite athletes who have  big disposal incomes, and their teenage kids.

Sorry to be so cynical. But over the last 12 years of SUP racing, how often have we seen brands produce boards that were fast, but so technical to use for the average paddler that they died a death within a season or two and then clogged up the classified ads at bargain prices for the next few years?

For instance, remember the hollow “monocoque” Naish javelin?

http://www.supracer.com/naish-javelin-mc14-revealed/

Or the hollow carbon Surftech Bark Phantom?

https://youtu.be/v4rN9j1usZU

Both these uber-expensive hollow boards proved too specialised to make much of an impact.

Additionally, SIC have been making hollow SUPs forever, and yet given the choice many people actually prefer the foam core ones.

So please excuse my sense of “here we go again”. Maybe this Nelo will be the one that brings durable and light SUPs to the masses. Or maybe they will just disappear within a season or two, to be revived as a footnote to the history of SUP on an Internet forum 5-10 years from now.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 12:30:54 AM by Area 10 »

photofr

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #727 on: March 07, 2019, 02:57:40 AM »
@Area:
I don't think that you are cynical, but I think "we get it" and the following boards are probably not meant for you (or at least do not meet your particular needs.)
- the Signature 1.0, 14x23
- the Signature 1.0, 14x24.75
- the Signature 2.0, 14x23
- the Signature 2.0, 14x24.75
- the GT 14x23.5

In fact, YES, we get it: They may be too technical for you, or you may not want to put in the time to feel at ease on them.

I can only assure you of one thing: Humans adapt very VERY well - just give it time. Here's a pretty good example, amongst many others: my 17'6" x 23" felt rather instable when I purchased it in 2014. In fact, the board wasn't originally purchased to go into the Ocean. Well, less than six months after purchasing it and paddling a whole bunch on it, I found myself in the middle of a channel, more than 10km away from shore - with side shop. A few months after that, I was doing 40+ km Downwind runs with it... so as you can see, we all adapt.

More real life experience and feedback:
My Signature 2.0 (in 14x23) also took some time to for me to adapt. To this day though, my board is like a dream come true. Its advantages do not go unnoticed:
- IT'S FREEKY LIGHT (long walks with it are no longer considered torture, and board handling out of the water is just way easier).
- NO PRESSURE DINGS (All my boards - all 11 of them from 3 different manufacturers - have had pressure dings. Not the Nelo)
- FEEL SOLID (Hands down, Nelo provides a solid construction, designed to last.)
- STILL LOOKS NEW (A simple wipe down and it still shines like new - and it's now one year old).
- IT'S FAST (I mentioned that one before, but I now have even more data to compare to: My fastest times are still on the Nelo board).
- IT ACCELERATES UNLIKE ANYTHING OUT THERE (Too much fun on bumps, on sprints, on "just playing around").

It's also very versatile: surfs well (so light, and plenty of rocker), great flat water speed, super easy remounts (way easier than with an Ace), and I feel like I can pretty much take it any where (and have... and all 4 corners of France - and heck, I am still venturing with the same board).

... but again: I think we get it - this board doesn't match your particular needs.



Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

Area 10

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #728 on: March 07, 2019, 03:26:59 AM »
Well, you are the one who is trying to sell me one!

I was making the point that hollow boards are not new to the SUP market. Many people (perhaps even ukgm) have not been in SUP long enough to remember those. These boards were touted as unsinkable and superlight. But they did not sell. I don’t think you can’t sell boards on construction alone, and if the light weight brings as many downsides as upsides for 99% of paddlers then that might explain why hollow construction never really took off.

You don’t race, and you are a featherweight, so you aren’t the typical demographic for this board either. But we’ll see. If they brought out a 26” wide version and I could demo it in real world conditions then I would.

But maybe the Nelo team riders will win everything in Europe and then everyone will be on one next year. I kinda hope that does happen because I am far from impressed with the effect on the maket that Starboard have had, and the, IMO, poor quality of construction of their race boards.


photofr

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #729 on: March 07, 2019, 04:00:57 AM »
I am not trying to sell YOU my board... you are specifically the one who said you'd wait 30 seasons to get 30% off or something.

Anyway, my recollection is that there were only two manufacturers of hollow boards.
One was geared towards Downwind (SIC) and the other all around sluggish by today's standards THINK).

There are always so many "variables" and "factors" in life, but I can tell you beyond any doubt as to why hollow boards haven't sold in the past:
- They were heavy (take a look at the THINK).
- They were too expensive (take a look at the price of a hollow UL board from SIC).
- The market wasn't ready (we probably didn't even know that Styrofoam was so bad for the environment, and didn't last).

After all, show me one board that is 1/2 way competitive in a race environment, previous to Nelo.

How I see it, currently:
23" - produced
23.5" - produced
24.75" - produced

Soon available:
21 / 22" - on the way

Next?
26" - will be inevitable
28" - would also make sense

In case you haven't noticed, we are in 2019 - AKA the end of the Styrofoam era.
Styrofoam is banned in several states (USA) - no more fast food plates or cup will be made out of styro. Next on the list will be coolers, and boards shouldn't be that far behind (IMO).

ADAPTING
I have been teaching sports nearly all my life. With certainty, I can tell you that people adapt. I have had 77 year-olds get onto a surfski and say: "it's impossible...." to later see them compete actively on a surfski - with beautiful technique. Everyone adapts, but said person must first be willing. My advice: don't let a skinny board scare you that much.

MARKET
Starboard needs competition, heck, a little competition is good for everyone involved!
I don't think that Nelo will take over the market, but I do believe that it will open a new way of thinking, and new ways of producing equipment that will last more than a single season. After all, the pricing is right up there with Starboard boards - even though everyone would still make money if they all lowered their board prices to about 2400 euros. That's economics though, and doesn't reflect too much on this new SUP concept of making a board LIGHT, SUPER STRONG, SUPER DURABLE, and VERY COMPETITIVE in current races.
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

ukgm

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #730 on: March 07, 2019, 04:59:22 AM »
It is interesting that they say that the foam boards are lighter than the hollow ones (which in turn are lighter than Asia made ones). So it looks like if you really care about weight above all else, maybe go foam custom. So the main advantages of a hollow board as far as SIC are concerned are to do with durability not weight.


I agree with their list, bar one - A hollow board will be lighter than a foam core board. If they can't achieve that, they're not building it right.

ukgm

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #731 on: March 07, 2019, 05:02:00 AM »
So please excuse my sense of “here we go again”. Maybe this Nelo will be the one that brings durable and light SUPs to the masses. Or maybe they will just disappear within a season or two, to be revived as a footnote to the history of SUP on an Internet forum 5-10 years from now.

I agree with you. I raced the hollow Farr designed Horizon 14 board at one of our biggest races a few years back as a guest team rider for them. It was a brilliant board but their marketing sucked and it faded away. What Lighsignature may have got right was recruiting Bruno and then building him the board he clearly wants. That'll keep him around for a few years and keep them in the spotlight.

ukgm

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #732 on: March 07, 2019, 05:07:57 AM »

I am a beginner for sure but during the few years I have been down-winding (generally in light to under 40 knots conditions) I have found the following advantage to a bit of weight in a downwind board:

1) increase inertia that help keep the board going
2) easier with the right nose to punch through the bumps in the front if needed
3) slightly higher stability
4) I had a DW board at 22 lbs and of course some heavier up to 28 lbs and did not really find that the lighter board had an advantage.

1) That is true but if surfski's are anything to go by, some paddlers will also value the ability to accelerate to catch a bump being of greater value to them. Bearing in mind that a SUP board has the relative hydrodynamics of a brick, I would go for weight reduction over inertia (as the latter can be mitigated with a change in stroke rate/technique).

2) Agree on that one. If you have the mass, you'll be more resistant to stopping.

3) This is also true. I'm on the verge of buying a new elite level surfski but going for the heavier & cheaper layup to ease my transition for the same reasons.

4) Published science on kayaks and rowing shells would certainly agree with you. I think a lot of this depends on your stroke style, board's drag and stroke rate you use. However, SUP boards really struggle with drag which would suggest the rules suggested for kayaks and shells may not apply in the same way.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 05:10:01 AM by ukgm »

burchas

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #733 on: March 07, 2019, 05:21:27 AM »
I am not trying to sell YOU my board...

 ...They were too expensive (take a look at the price of a hollow UL board from SIC).

 ...even though everyone would still make money if they all lowered their board prices to about 2400 euros...

But you are in fact trying to sell your board even though it's the greatest thing since sliced bread
so excuse me if I don't take your word for it.

A Custom hollow 14" from SIC will actually cost less than the Nelo, the fact Nelo priced it
as they did is because they probably know their economics and realized it will be they only
way they can finance the project. (and pay Bruno)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 05:35:43 AM by burchas »
in progress...

burchas

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #734 on: March 07, 2019, 05:21:36 AM »
It is interesting that they say that the foam boards are lighter than the hollow ones (which in turn are lighter than Asia made ones). So it looks like if you really care about weight above all else, maybe go foam custom. So the main advantages of a hollow board as far as SIC are concerned are to do with durability not weight.


I agree with their list, bar one - A hollow board will be lighter than a foam core board. If they can't achieve that, they're not building it right.

Judging by the other hollow water crafts I've tested I definitely agree we're getting the short end
of the shaft. In fact we're getting shafted ;D (actually  >:( )
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 05:24:13 AM by burchas »
in progress...

 


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