Author Topic: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race  (Read 259426 times)

photofr

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #630 on: January 21, 2019, 10:00:50 AM »
Bruno is taller than Kai.
I met him in 2016 - He certainly hasn’t shrinked since, though he may have lost a few pounds.

Those boards are specifically not designed for people under 65 kilos... point being, the Nelo boards aren’t currently suited for my weight, but they are perfect for his weight - since he’s well above the 65 kilo mark.
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

ukgm

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #631 on: January 21, 2019, 10:58:00 AM »
With his power, low body fat, and stamina, he should do very well on it.

He'd do well on a skimboard or pretty much anything else for that matter but that's not the point.

From the looks of it, he has a smaller frame than yours Photo, 135 if I had to guess. Having close knowledge of this board you'd know
that it doesn't play to your strength. Yes, he's much stronger and skilled but you'd have to think it puts him in immediate disadvantage,
especially on flat water where bigger stronger paddlers can jump on a 21" board no problem. Should be interesting.

I agree. With the GT at circa 297 and the Signature over 300, the volumes are ideal for me but must surely be too high for someone of Bruno's slight build.

@ UKGM:
I am still unsure as to how you guys come up with the fact that Bruno is a featherweight. In real life, he's like 173 pounds (a hair under 80 kilos).

The Signature 2.0 board is better geared for someone above 65 kilos (but you guys are probably reading 95 kilo riders)  :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\

I’m 88kg very lean at full race fitness and I would consider most boards with volume north of 290 ideal for me. Or to put it another way and to provide some anecdotal references:

1) one of the reasons I was told that Naish have left the Maliko such a comparably low volume over the last 4-5 years was because it was sized for Kai. Hell, Casper is one of the taller athletes they have and he is of slight build really when I met him.

2) the original Lightcorp signature was sized for their German athletes who apparently were quite big. However, the 2.0 had more volume thrown at it as they wanted more.

Both of this things lead me to guess that you’ll see Bruno on a different board. At the very least I know they could shave the weight even further (and I would encourage this).
« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 10:59:42 AM by ukgm »

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #632 on: January 21, 2019, 11:39:32 AM »
Unfortunately for Nero/Lightcorp, since Bruno has said that his physical training will result in a 10-15% improvement, if he does start winning by a mile, everyone will put it down to his new training regimen, and not the board :)

ukgm

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #633 on: January 21, 2019, 11:48:58 PM »
Unfortunately for Nero/Lightcorp, since Bruno has said that his physical training will result in a 10-15% improvement, if he does start winning by a mile, everyone will put it down to his new training regimen, and not the board :)

In my experience, people will normally assume that the most superficial thing is responsible, not the subtleties of the graft. When Lance Armstrong made his [er, drug assisted] comeback in '99, the sale of the bikes took Trek from what had been a relatively small and unspectacular bike brand to one of the largest in the world for both cycling and triathlon within just 2-3 years.

photofr

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #634 on: January 22, 2019, 01:29:21 AM »
The good news is that this ‘brand’ seems a little different than most:
- it now has 3 hollow boards to choose from
- they are super quick to making changes / new molds

Yes, I was very surprised when, just couple of months after releasing the signature 1.0 that was not ideal for the 80-90 kilos athlete, Lightcorp release the modified 2.0. This is a HUGE deal when we are talking about mold construction- so this is in fact very promissing for the future of Nelo / Lightcorp SUP.
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

Area 10

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #635 on: January 22, 2019, 02:50:41 AM »
Unfortunately for Nero/Lightcorp, since Bruno has said that his physical training will result in a 10-15% improvement, if he does start winning by a mile, everyone will put it down to his new training regimen, and not the board :)

In my experience, people will normally assume that the most superficial thing is responsible, not the subtleties of the graft. When Lance Armstrong made his [er, drug assisted] comeback in '99, the sale of the bikes took Trek from what had been a relatively small and unspectacular bike brand to one of the largest in the world for both cycling and triathlon within just 2-3 years.
But that is probably just brand recognition. They bought the most spectacular billboard going.

But Nelo have clearly really committed to this. And it wouldn’t be hard to see them cleaning up in the high-end inland waters SUP market. The competition is producing poor-value boards built using steam-powered technology in a digital age. Nelo now just need a board that virtually everyone who is moderately serious about their paddling can use, for pleasure/fitness as well as racing. If these boards last really well, and they only build super-tippy ones, it wouldn’t be long before the used market is saturated with them at bargain prices, and they’d be no reason to buy one new. Most SUP racers only race for one or two seasons.

I’m really looking forward to being able to buy one, as soon as they make one for “people like me”.


photofr

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #636 on: January 22, 2019, 03:32:21 AM »
@AREA:
I am still unsure if you have actually tried one, or seen a Nelo board yet... but I am curious to know your opinion:
"What deters you from checking out a Signature 2.0 14x24.75?

I am curious, based on a short list of advantages listed below:
- For the last 25 years, records show that hollow foam-core constructions will last and endure lots of abuse.
- We also know that the Nelo boards are LIGHT, fun to carry around, and super fun to accelerate on.
- Travelling with a board on your roof will outlast any other board I know of.
- Pressure dings are a thing of the past (comparing my many SB with Nelo's construction here).
- Paddle marks are nearly non-existant - and will buff out back to perfection.
- The 24.75 (though I have never tried it) would seem like a great choice for MANY PADDLERS like you (serious about your paddling, but not crazy about racing).
- You are lucky enough not be a featherweight paddler...
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #637 on: January 22, 2019, 04:28:17 AM »
Thanks for the question. People “like me” don’t want:

1. Deep dugouts, with sharp sidewalls.

People like me paddle in a wide range of conditions, including choppy and windy ocean as well as pure flat protected inland waters. We also paddle all year round, sometimes in freezing conditions. Falling from, and then getting back into a dugout board (especially with narrow sidewalls) is difficult and slow in chop and wind, and you can get an awful birdbath effect that stops you dead if water splashes into the birdbath area. If you wear a waist leash or Camelbak with a waist leash then getting back into a dugout can easily scratch or damage the delicate thin sidewalls.
Basically, dugouts are a PITA unless you are a dedicated win-no-matter-what racer, and/or never fall in. I think the RS is just about as deep as you can go before it becomes too obstructive.

2. Convex hulls.
Convex hulls do not surf or downwind well. They are also unpleasantly tippy for their width. People like me want a board that can be used for a wide variety of purposes, and if we for instance go to the beach and find a little wave there, we want to be able to surf it. Or if it’s windy, do upwind/downwind laps. Forget doing any of this with a convex hull. There just aren’t the edges to release the water to get planing, and you have little directional control. I’d rather buy a flat or concave hulled board that is narrower than a wider convex one that would be the same stability. I’d be faster on the narrower board, even in pure flat water, and would be able to do more with it.

3. Narrow widths suitable only for racing.
Racing is substantially about who is willing to suffer the most discomfort in order to win. Fitness/touring however largely requires boards that are comfortable to paddle. People like me do not enjoy having our precious SUP sessions cut short because balancing on the board is like balancing on a log. We want to get our heart rates up, work on developing our strokes and a nice rhythm, and sometimes maybe carry some light loads for longer day trips or extra clothing in case of weather change. But we don’t want our board to be a barge either: it has to be a nice compromise between narrowness to allow us to race if we want to and mechanically to get a good stroke and work on our PBs for circuits we know well, and yet not so narrow that only our teenage kids can stand on it for more than 30 mins, and if we raced we’d be falling off in the first 100 yds madness.

Basically, what people like me want is more along the lines of the SIC RS or Starboard All Star. Only we’d like them lighter, more durable, and generally better built. We are not looking for a twitchy highly-specialised canoe that you stand up in. That may suit the elite racers who may be advising Nelo on aspects of design. But it won’t appeal to many outside a handful of top (probably sponsored) racers in each country.

Hope this helps. I am indeed basically the market demographic for Nelo, I’d think, to a substantial degree. And potentially I would buy one, for sure, despite the extreme economic uncertainty in the UK at the moment. But Nelo aren’t making the right board for me, at the moment. I suspect they should try sticking some “ordinary” SUP enthusiasts on their boards (especially those who paddle mixed conditions) and get some real-world user feedback. There are so many options out there today that if you are going to pay top dollar for a board, it has to hit all the main user-friendly/versatility points square on the nose. For us guys, comfort and handling predictability *is* speed, as well as enjoyment.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 04:31:08 AM by Area 10 »

Luc Benac

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #638 on: January 22, 2019, 07:14:02 AM »
Thanks for the question. People “like me” don’t want:

People like me just want to have fun on a decent board that can be used for a variety of conditions :-)

https://youtu.be/-CU2sxFXBV4
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 07:21:47 AM by Luc Benac »
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Sunova Torpedo 14'x27" 286L Salish 500
Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L Andaman 520
Sunova Steeze 10' x 31" 150L
Blackfish Paddles

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #639 on: January 22, 2019, 08:21:50 AM »
Thanks for the question. People “like me” don’t want:

People like me just want to have fun on a decent board that can be used for a variety of conditions :-)

https://youtu.be/-CU2sxFXBV4
Yeah, that’s a good example. I was answering the Q as to why I *didn’t* want a board like the Nelo Signature 2.0. But if I were asked to give a list of the kind of board I *do* want, the Maliko would be on it. Also, the SIC RS, Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder, Infinity Blackfish, Starboard All Star etc. Maybe the Fanatic Blitz (I haven’t tried one yet).  None have deep dugouts, and none have convex hulls. Somewhere around the 24.5-26” wide range (for a 14)  is about right for “people like me” in mixed conditions.

ukgm

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #640 on: January 22, 2019, 09:23:08 AM »

But that is probably just brand recognition. They bought the most spectacular billboard going.


No, as the brand and model had little recognition prior to it. This is instead a typical effect with any endorsement of a sports product by a recognisable athlete with abilities desired by lesser individuals.

ukgm

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #641 on: January 22, 2019, 09:37:04 AM »
Thanks for the question. People “like me” don’t want:

1. Deep dugouts, with sharp sidewalls.
2. Convex hulls.
3. Narrow widths suitable only for racing.

1. I agree. I think avoiding features like this is equally why Allstar's and Maliko's are so popular beyond just their allwater useability. They have an everyday pleasant and uncomplicated nature to them.
2. Ditto. I agree wholesale. Any board can be manageable by the right athlete but there is nothing pleasant about a constantly rolling profile.
3. This is the big one in my view. I'm not sure on the signature yet but the GT in a 24-26 width would be a industry gamechanger in my view

Bean

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #642 on: January 22, 2019, 10:03:28 AM »
So, it sounds like we all agree, Infinity Blackfish all around ;D

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #643 on: January 22, 2019, 12:24:06 PM »

But that is probably just brand recognition. They bought the most spectacular billboard going.


No, as the brand and model had little recognition prior to it. This is instead a typical effect with any endorsement of a sports product by a recognisable athlete with abilities desired by lesser individuals.
Nope. No-one thought it was his bike that made Lance fast. They thought it was because he was an extraordinary specimen. I remember reams of paper being spewed out in the subject of his extraordinary physique with no mention of his bike. But for sure, once people heard that he was using X brand, they’d reckon it was worth buying. It meant that it was a top-drawer brand, and was possible to win on it. But I don’t think anyone thought that if he’d jumped on another bike he’d have stopped winning. At least, no-one with an IQ above 80, anyway.

ukgm

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #644 on: January 22, 2019, 01:14:17 PM »
Quote from: Area 10 link=topic=31801.msg392311#msg392311 date=
1) Nope. No-one thought it was his bike that made Lance fast. They thought it was because he was an extraordinary specimen. I remember reams of paper being spewed out in the subject of his extraordinary physique with no mention of his bike. But for sure, once people heard that he was using X brand, they’d reckon it was worth buying. It meant that it was a top-drawer brand, and was possible to win on it.

2) But I don’t think anyone thought that if he’d jumped on another bike he’d have stopped winning. At least, no-one with an IQ above 80, anyway.

1) Not true. He made a big deal out of his 'F-one' team (a multidisciplinary, multi-person approach to his personal equipment development using several guys like Steve Hed, John Cobb and others) and the bikes and equipment it created such as his trek ttt bike or the Madone road bike. I was aware of this at the time despite being some 10 years before I became a sports technologist but it was a cutting edge approach in the sport similar to what Team Sky reproduced from 2010.

This is a matter of public record and recounted in most books about him but some like - 'It's not about the bike' is one of the more well known ones.

2) I'm not saying Lance didn't win because he wasn't a fine specimen. He was a juiced to the max example of athletic perfection - but his success formula went well beyond that. Oh, and if you think a bike isn't crucial to this - you'd also be wrong. I know of two accounts already this year where this has happened. The reason isn't aerodynamics of the frame (as these have converged heavily in bike design now - sound familiar ?) but instead its because the ergonomic fit of a bike pushed on them by a new sponsor doesn't work and they can't produce the power or get the aerodynamic riding position they need. To give you an example (and I can say this with a lot of time logged in wind tunnels and on velodromes sorting my own position out) that by moving the grand total of around 20mm in a couple of directions has dropped my 10 mile bike time trial by a minute..... for no extra effort or power requirement. Lance had a weird kick in his back due to the rules of time the time. When he went back to triathlon some years later, he was actually a better cyclist as the ergonomic rules were more lax.

A phrase I use a lot in my stuff is 'when it comes to equipment, you can't turn a donkey into a racehorse but you can easily turn a racehorse into a donkey'.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 02:01:01 PM by ukgm »

 


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