Author Topic: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race  (Read 49510 times)

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #390 on: May 16, 2018, 06:22:20 AM »
In the entire history of SUP racing, has anyone ever lost a podium place because their board was 3-4lbs heavier than it might have been?

Or for that matter, because their fin was 3oz heavier ::)
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Luc Benac

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #391 on: May 16, 2018, 07:39:24 AM »
I have been very curious about the topic of marginal weight.

Naish is only producing the Maliko in 2018.
All its racers use the Maliko and have decent results in various race conditions including "flat" water.
The Maliko is not using any carbon in its layout except a small band/stringer.
As a result the weight has been reported around 27 lbs for a low volume board with no displacement nose.

To me it brings two opposite possible conclusions:
1) Racers use the same production board (like NSP's team) and the added weight/flexibility has no effect on their performance including on "flat" water
2) Racers are provided with customs boards as they perform better (measured or perceived)

I had the chance to use two identical boards - Bark Vapor - one with only carbon at the bottom (27.6 lbs) and one with carbon top and bottom (24.6 lbs) for some time (these were my own boards). I did not do any GPS comparison swapping boards in the same conditions so I can only comment on my impressions but on a board that I know relatively well and have used for several months.
On "flat" light conditions, the slightly stiffer and lighter model is my first choice for ease of paddling and fun factor. On bigger/winder/choppier/messier conditions the more flexible and heavier model is my preferred choice.
Nothing very dramatic of course but subtle differences.

I did sell the heavier model as having two identical boards is a bit of a waste and I was not going to be having to decide which one to load on the car depending on expected conditions so it would have defeated the purpose based on Murphy's law.

ps: I did not really notice much of a difference regarding the weight of the fin on this specific board. On the other hand, on the Whiplash (22 lbs) I find that having a light carbon fin versus a fibreglass fin change a little bit the feel of the board. That said the fibreglass fin can also have its own quality and advantages so it is not an absolute don't....
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 07:42:31 AM by Luc Benac »
All-around # Naish Maliko 14' x 26" 264L
Downwind # Bark Vapor 14' x 26" 271L
Touring # Ace-GT 17'4" x 27" 313L

Black Project Hydro/Kenalu Mana/Blackfish Andaman
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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #392 on: May 16, 2018, 08:55:22 AM »
ps: I did not really notice much of a difference regarding the weight of the fin on this specific board. On the other hand, on the Whiplash (22 lbs) I find that having a light carbon fin versus a fibreglass fin change a little bit the feel of the board. That said the fibreglass fin can also have its own quality and advantages so it is not an absolute don't....

I had the same fin (7inch Stinger) both in Carbon (171g) and fiberglass construction (275g). Tested both on my Blackfish 14x24 (19Lbs) in flat water.
Outside of carrying the board in and out of the water, there was no difference between the 2 as far as I could tell, not even academic.
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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #393 on: May 16, 2018, 09:11:18 AM »
Yep, Iíve got identical model fins for both racing and surfing in both carbon and fibreglass (and even plastic). Apart from crazily-flexible plastic ones when surfing, when you can notice a slight difference, I have noticed no performance differences between the cheap and durable fins and the same ones in a light and fragile layup. Itís just that the carbon ones are so easily damaged. So I tend not to use them as much, which is crazy since they are usually about twice the price.

A fool and his money are soon parted.


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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #394 on: May 16, 2018, 09:51:33 AM »
Itís just that the carbon ones are so easily damaged. So I tend not to use them as much, which is crazy since they are usually about twice the price.

A fool and his money are soon parted.

I guess in our fellow zoner case, he already parted from boatload of money to get the heavier board what's another 200 euros on a fin to shave 3 more ounces, even
if its deep as an anchor. I can see how it make total sense ::)
- Ocean Ripple 16x25
- SIC Standamaran (S-16) - https://goo.gl/7myGAo
- SIC FX 12.6 2X - https://goo.gl/GOkSHT
- Red 2017 Elite 14x25 - https://goo.gl/Su8lJk
- ZRE Lightning 75
- Kenalu Mana 82
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Luc Benac

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #395 on: May 16, 2018, 09:52:21 AM »
ps: I did not really notice much of a difference regarding the weight of the fin on this specific board. On the other hand, on the Whiplash (22 lbs) I find that having a light carbon fin versus a fibreglass fin change a little bit the feel of the board. That said the fibreglass fin can also have its own quality and advantages so it is not an absolute don't....

I had the same fin (7inch Stinger) both in Carbon (171g) and fiberglass construction (275g). Tested both on my Blackfish 14x24 (19Lbs) in flat water.
Outside of carrying the board in and out of the water, there was no difference between the 2 as far as I could tell, not even academic.

The Stinger does not have much flex to start with so even by Larry's own admission, this is the fin in his range that can benefit from been carbon light.
All-around # Naish Maliko 14' x 26" 264L
Downwind # Bark Vapor 14' x 26" 271L
Touring # Ace-GT 17'4" x 27" 313L

Black Project Hydro/Kenalu Mana/Blackfish Andaman
#LAfins GTS

Luc Benac

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #396 on: May 16, 2018, 09:55:37 AM »
Itís just that the carbon ones are so easily damaged. So I tend not to use them as much, which is crazy since they are usually about twice the price.

A fool and his money are soon parted.

I guess in our fellow zoner case, he already parted from boatload of money to get the heavier board what's another 200 euros on a fin to shave 3 more ounces, even
if its deep as an anchor. I can see how it make total sense ::)

Be nice!
Buying fins is not a rational process anyway, we all know that.....is like a kid in a candy store, bad for you but so good.........
All-around # Naish Maliko 14' x 26" 264L
Downwind # Bark Vapor 14' x 26" 271L
Touring # Ace-GT 17'4" x 27" 313L

Black Project Hydro/Kenalu Mana/Blackfish Andaman
#LAfins GTS

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #397 on: May 16, 2018, 10:03:35 AM »
Itís just that the carbon ones are so easily damaged. So I tend not to use them as much, which is crazy since they are usually about twice the price.

A fool and his money are soon parted.

I guess in our fellow zoner case, he already parted from boatload of money to get the heavier board what's another 200 euros on a fin to shave 3 more ounces, even
if its deep as an anchor. I can see how it make total sense ::)

Be nice!
Buying fins is not a rational process anyway, we all know that.....is like a kid in a candy store, bad for you but so good.........

You're right. I'm sorry :-[

Yes, the Stinger will not lose any critical properties by switching to carbon, but durability will suffer.
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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #398 on: May 16, 2018, 10:06:08 AM »
Hey - I wasnít criticising anyone for buying expensive fins! That would be the ultimate in hypocrisy. My comment about a fool and his money was a comment on my own behaviour.

Sometimes Iíve bought a fin just because it looks nice. Pitiful, really.

But Iíd really rather that all these super-expensive fins (Black Project, VMG etc etc) were all made of a more durable and cheaper material, even if it doubled the weight, because Iíve never bought a fin just because of the weight but I sure as hell have *not* bought one because it was going to cost too much. And the lighter fin will not perform significantly better. So what on Earth is the point??!

« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 10:11:03 AM by Area 10 »

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #399 on: May 16, 2018, 10:20:44 AM »
And the lighter fin will not perform significantly better. So what on Earth is the point??!

I can come up with 2 use cases why, It probably applies to me and maybe Luc.

- Ocean Ripple 16x25
- SIC Standamaran (S-16) - https://goo.gl/7myGAo
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- Kenalu Mana 82
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Luc Benac

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #400 on: May 16, 2018, 10:36:55 AM »
And the lighter fin will not perform significantly better. So what on Earth is the point??!

I can come up with 2 use cases why, It probably applies to me and maybe Luc.

Yes in my Whiplash for some reason having a lighter (buoyant?) fin improve the tail behavior and the feel of the board.
It is not a whoa incredible difference kind of thing but a subtle and definitely noticeable feel.
Outside of this specific case. Did not really notice that the weight change anything to the baking of the cake.
All-around # Naish Maliko 14' x 26" 264L
Downwind # Bark Vapor 14' x 26" 271L
Touring # Ace-GT 17'4" x 27" 313L

Black Project Hydro/Kenalu Mana/Blackfish Andaman
#LAfins GTS

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #401 on: May 16, 2018, 10:50:26 AM »
And the lighter fin will not perform significantly better. So what on Earth is the point??!

I can come up with 2 use cases why, It probably applies to me and maybe Luc.

Yes in my Whiplash for some reason having a lighter (buoyant?) fin improve the tail behavior and the feel of the board.
It is not a whoa incredible difference kind of thing but a subtle and definitely noticeable feel.
Outside of this specific case. Did not really notice that the weight change anything to the baking of the cake.

 ;D I was going for something else.

I thought you might be silly enough like me to stop on a downwind run and change the fin to see the difference.
in that case a light floating fin would have an advantage in case a big bump comes along and throw you off sending
your fin to the bottom of the ocean.

The other case, when you have such a large collection and you want to brings bag of fins with you for your travels it is more
convenient to have lighter fins.
- Ocean Ripple 16x25
- SIC Standamaran (S-16) - https://goo.gl/7myGAo
- SIC FX 12.6 2X - https://goo.gl/GOkSHT
- Red 2017 Elite 14x25 - https://goo.gl/Su8lJk
- ZRE Lightning 75
- Kenalu Mana 82
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Luc Benac

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #402 on: May 16, 2018, 12:40:59 PM »
;D I was going for something else.

I thought you might be silly enough like me to stop on a downwind run and change the fin to see the difference.
in that case a light floating fin would have an advantage in case a big bump comes along and throw you off sending
your fin to the bottom of the ocean.

The other case, when you have such a large collection and you want to brings bag of fins with you for your travels it is more
convenient to have lighter fins.

 ;D

Also when you throw at the adulating crowds handful of fins during your victory walk after been the last of the race. Lighter fins hurt less.....
All-around # Naish Maliko 14' x 26" 264L
Downwind # Bark Vapor 14' x 26" 271L
Touring # Ace-GT 17'4" x 27" 313L

Black Project Hydro/Kenalu Mana/Blackfish Andaman
#LAfins GTS

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #403 on: May 16, 2018, 02:44:40 PM »
photofr, perhaps do a tests between fins such as BP - tiger & sonic and VMG - 35, 37 & TT and let us know how it goes with your board.
Also, dont forget mr LA fins as he knows a thing or two about fins ;)

Luc Benac

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #404 on: May 16, 2018, 03:38:07 PM »
photofr, perhaps do a tests between fins such as BP - tiger & sonic and VMG - 35, 37 & TT and let us know how it goes with your board.
Also, dont forget mr LA fins as he knows a thing or two about fins ;)

The Mako TT works really good in the flat or not so flat.
The 6" Stinger is also very nice but might be too short for that board stability (or not).
I also like the Sonic as an all-around/DW fin as an alternate to the Mako 37.
These three fins are my favourite on the Vapor but the Vapor has a fin box really at the back of the tail which is of very moderate volume/width.

I have never tried the Mako 35 or 28 nor the BP Tiger.
All-around # Naish Maliko 14' x 26" 264L
Downwind # Bark Vapor 14' x 26" 271L
Touring # Ace-GT 17'4" x 27" 313L

Black Project Hydro/Kenalu Mana/Blackfish Andaman
#LAfins GTS