Author Topic: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race  (Read 43484 times)

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #225 on: February 28, 2018, 03:27:45 AM »
1) Perhaps the answers can be found when looking at the big picture, and since we cannot whitewater SUP, surf SUP, tour SUP, long distance SUP, flat water SUP, Downwind SUP.... with the same board, why would you want to have a single board do it all? Find me a bike that can excel with it all?!

2) My next board?
It's going to be an Ace-Like-Shape for calmer waters, because I can let someone else do all the work for 17km (while drafting him). I am hoping that conserving all that energy will allow me to sprint away near the finish. For this, I will need to ensure that my new board can excel in drafting.


1) ..... because if you go to an event like the worlds, you'll need a board that may have to handle a variety of events. That's why the flatwater board market is limited (with Naish dropping the concept entirely).

2) I actually agree with this to a point. It's why I opted for a narrower Allstar this year (and one of the boards I'd consider next year would be a narrower version of the same thing). Unless you're the kind of athlete who is going to be leading the opening kilometres, you're going to need to deal with major cross chop so a flatwater board may well not be the best option for mid pack athletes. However, for those people from a cycling background, there are tactical options to getting rid of 'tail suckers'. I had a situation last year whereby I has someone sit on me for 10km. In the end, you find you can verbally coerce them to come and take a turn or to drop back or I just physically stop paddling and panic them out. At a recreational racing level, that will work.
Well, if I was in a race with you, and could keep up with you, I’d just draft you all the way and then try to outsprint you at the end. If you stopped, I’d stop. I’d stick to you like a dingberry. You are a big powerful guy so would be a delight to draft. That’s the nature of our current format of races. I find drafting intensely annoying. So I put a metal strip at the back of my race board, so if someone drafts me I can stop suddenly and ding the nose of their board. It then gives me great pleasure to think of their board sucking in water all the way to the end of the race :)

photofr

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #226 on: February 28, 2018, 03:55:32 AM »
:)

I once took great pleasure when someone was drafting me: I took him on a huge deviation - at a leisured pace - and then it was Sprint FULL ON for 20 seconds, rest for 30 seconds, sprint full on for 20 seconds / rest / sprint / rest...

After the 3rd time doing this, the paddler seemed so happy to have managed to stick to me - but I just kept doing it. I think it was on the 5th sprint that the poor dude's breathing was a wreck.

Sadly for him, I train that way - specifically for Downwind conditions - but sadly had to apply my training to him drafting. 
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

photofr

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #227 on: February 28, 2018, 03:58:42 AM »
I can totally see middle of the pack paddlers enjoying the Nelo board as if it were meant for them.

I can't..... but that's why I'd like to see the feedback of being in that scenario. Either way, with a board like this, I wouldn't hope to be stuck in the middle of the pack in the first place.

Perhaps you didn't read the entire sentence paragraph I posted - but perhaps I didn't explain "middle of the pack" carefully enough.

You still can't see it with :
Middle of the pack, not IN A RACE -
Middle of the pack, alone paddling, on calm waters -
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

yugi

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #228 on: February 28, 2018, 09:58:27 AM »
:)

I once took great pleasure when someone was drafting me: I took him on a huge deviation - at a leisured pace - and then it was Sprint FULL ON for 20 seconds, rest for 30 seconds, sprint full on for 20 seconds / rest / sprint / rest...

After the 3rd time doing this, the paddler seemed so happy to have managed to stick to me - but I just kept doing it. I think it was on the 5th sprint that the poor dude's breathing was a wreck.

Sadly for him, I train that way - specifically for Downwind conditions - but sadly had to apply my training to him drafting.

I bet the 11 cities race is as much, or even more, about the camaraderie and the friends you make than race results.

Just relax and have fun. Life is way too short my friend.

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #229 on: February 28, 2018, 12:40:47 PM »
Yeah, just think how much fun you could have paddling that course with a bunch of friends, and enjoying fine food and a comfy warm bed each night, by not racing at all :)

Oh sorry. I forgot - paddling has to be about pain and deprivation or it’s not “real” paddling :)

ukgm

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #230 on: March 01, 2018, 12:51:31 AM »
1) Perhaps the answers can be found when looking at the big picture, and since we cannot whitewater SUP, surf SUP, tour SUP, long distance SUP, flat water SUP, Downwind SUP.... with the same board, why would you want to have a single board do it all? Find me a bike that can excel with it all?!

2) My next board?
It's going to be an Ace-Like-Shape for calmer waters, because I can let someone else do all the work for 17km (while drafting him). I am hoping that conserving all that energy will allow me to sprint away near the finish. For this, I will need to ensure that my new board can excel in drafting.


1) ..... because if you go to an event like the worlds, you'll need a board that may have to handle a variety of events. That's why the flatwater board market is limited (with Naish dropping the concept entirely).

2) I actually agree with this to a point. It's why I opted for a narrower Allstar this year (and one of the boards I'd consider next year would be a narrower version of the same thing). Unless you're the kind of athlete who is going to be leading the opening kilometres, you're going to need to deal with major cross chop so a flatwater board may well not be the best option for mid pack athletes. However, for those people from a cycling background, there are tactical options to getting rid of 'tail suckers'. I had a situation last year whereby I has someone sit on me for 10km. In the end, you find you can verbally coerce them to come and take a turn or to drop back or I just physically stop paddling and panic them out. At a recreational racing level, that will work.
Well, if I was in a race with you, and could keep up with you, I’d just draft you all the way and then try to outsprint you at the end. If you stopped, I’d stop. I’d stick to you like a dingberry. You are a big powerful guy so would be a delight to draft. That’s the nature of our current format of races. I find drafting intensely annoying. So I put a metal strip at the back of my race board, so if someone drafts me I can stop suddenly and ding the nose of their board. It then gives me great pleasure to think of their board sucking in water all the way to the end of the race :)

Absolutely right. I agree.

(my board got damaged last season on the tail due to someone doing as you suggest above. Getting rid of them in the end was simple maths but I let it go on longer than I should have done).

photofr

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #231 on: April 15, 2018, 11:48:07 PM »
I finally got to try the board I ordered: the 14x23 Nelo. Here's a very brief look at what I FELT.

Before sharing my thoughts, know that they are just my thoughts, and the very first ones at that since I only spent an hour or so on the board. FYI, my board has been built, is ready ready for shipping, but should arrive next week Tuesday. In the meantime, the board that I tried was the demo board that already made its way to Northern France.

So... I get on the board thinking: it's gonna be tippy, it's gotta be tippy. To my great surprise: that thing is far more stable than my 17'6 x 23" needle nose / needle tail. Its stability far expected anything I could have thought. Anyway, that the very first thought that came to mind after just couple of strokes.

The second thought was: "the HELL" with all the people who say that a super light board is overrated. The ratio between my 60 or so kilos and this super light 8.9 kilo board was downright outstanding. My paddle, used as an anchor now has more than 5 kilos less to move ahead. That's just a huge difference - and that, my friends, has put a smile on my face (stuck grin for over an hour).

This amounted to full power ahead, unreal accelerations, ultra quiet movement through the water, and an insane glide.

Let's compare what is comparable:
This Nelo board (14x23) glides far better than my 2nd favorite 14x23 board (the SB Sprint). I mean, it's not even in the same ball-park.

Cherry on top: It's lightyears quieter in the water.

Needless to say, all the SURFSKI tests I have personally conducted on light skis vs. heavier skis over the years will transpose in the World of light SUP.

Without a doubt, I will see myself paddle my new 14x23 board in mid ocean.
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #232 on: April 16, 2018, 01:05:42 AM »
It’s great you like your new board. It does sound very interesting.

But did you actually GPS the board back to back with another? Light boards *feel* fast because our perceptual system is more sensitive to changes in speed than differences in average speed. In other words, initial impressions can be misleading, and you’d really have to try boards back to back over a fixed course in the same conditions to estimate the real size of the difference.

How does it handle for buoy turns?

photofr

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #233 on: April 16, 2018, 01:23:41 AM »
I have compared dozens of boards to my UL 17'6 x 23" - with FEELING, as well as with GPS in hand.

The GPS tests will come, but I wanted to share that quiet boards do not usually feel fast. This one FEELS super fast, and when compared to K1 paddlers, a full on sprint let me know that this Nelo board was SUPER FAST.

These K1 paddlers are used to seeing a lot of SUP paddlers - they were blown away by this board - and it wasn't because I was in my best shape... or because I am one of the fastest paddler (the opposite will be far more accurate).

Just take it for what it's worth: a feeling.
Based on that feeling, it was a pleasure to paddle this board, and this feeling was the closest to paddling a UL. That's exactly the kind of feeling I have been missing from ANY 14' board in the past. So again, for what it's worth, it's a great feeling and hard earned money well spent.

We'll all agree: a good feeling is better than a lousy one... and a good feeling makes you want to paddle more often. It's all good.
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

yugi

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #234 on: April 16, 2018, 05:16:34 AM »
...
Let's compare what is comparable:
This Nelo board (14x23) glides far better than my 2nd favorite 14x23 board (the SB Sprint). I mean, it's not even in the same ball-park.
...

impressive!

ukgm

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #235 on: April 16, 2018, 05:26:40 AM »
I think we need to be aware that the placebo is going to be pretty powerful - particularly when no hard numbers are being provided. As far as rowing shells and kayaks go, it's been proposed that:

"the percentage loss of speed is one sixth (0.167%) the percentage increase in mass"

Despite their hydrodynamic inferiority, I can't see SUP's being much different to this rule. The reality is that for anything other than sprinting, the reduction in weight isn't going to produce anywhere near what you think it will. However, it is important to separate any increase in performance due to a reduction in form drag or a reduction in weight. Any talk of increased glide is going to relate to the former I think, not the latter.

yugi

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #236 on: April 16, 2018, 06:28:59 AM »
^ so...

how come there aren't any fat coxswains?


yugi

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #237 on: April 16, 2018, 06:32:16 AM »
Light does feel great. Most especially when loading the board up on your rack or car!

Not bedunking your "placebo" argument, GM, BTW. It definitly is 90% of the game.

And BTW. The more you spend on a baord the bigger the "placebo" effect.

Edit to add:
Small light coxswains much easier to throw in the water!
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 06:40:14 AM by yugi »

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #238 on: April 16, 2018, 07:05:22 AM »
Here's for all addicts - SPORT ADDICTS

Hello, my name is Vic. I am sorry, for I am an average paddler, sort of middle of the pack on a good day. I am definitely getting older. In doing so, I am constantly finding myself looking for easier ways, and more efficient crafts.

MOST WILL AGREE
"the percentage loss of speed is one sixth (0.167%) the percentage increase in mass"

I WILL TOTALLY DISAGREE
Because of the following reasons:
1. Extensive surfski testing has revealed that with my body weight (about 60 kilos) - I find that removing just 5 kilos from a 15 kilos ski increases my average speed an average of 0.9 km/h (that's nearly 1 km an hour difference!!!)
2. Because SUP is so inefficient compared to surfskis, I find that the beginning of each stroke is dedicated to getting my board back to speed, and 2/3 of my remaining stroke is where I get speed. Because of this, a SUPER LIGHT board allows far less effort at the beginning of the stroke, where I am now able to get real power RIGHT AWAY.

Keep it simple: just try to place an 8 kilo bag between your feet and take a GPS sample. Let's see if your loss of speed is really only 0.167% - based on a two hour paddle. Chances are, your data will reveal something very different than 0.167% loss - on anything longer than 30 minutes. The 0.167% rule is based on schematics dating back - way back - most likely derived by lazy people who didn't want to actually paddle for 3 or 4 hours while weighted down.

Heck, don't take my words for it... just go and make your own data by adding extra weight to your board. Keep in mind that when I add 5 kilos to my board, it's like most of you guys adding 8 to 9 kilos to your board. So go ahead, see real data that pertains to a "real you".
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 07:09:08 AM by photofr »
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

ukgm

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #239 on: April 16, 2018, 07:20:11 AM »
^ so...

how come there aren't any fat coxswains?

Because the starting acceleration is a major part of rowing and a significant percentage of its race length. You don't want excess mass when you've got to start from rest. SUP races aren't the same.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 07:32:35 AM by ukgm »

 


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