NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race

[photofr]

Stunning-
I just came out of the water as well - it was cold, it was still very fun and in good company, but I wish I had my Nelo board.

The images you have are some of the best photos TO DATE - and anywhere. Thanks again for sharing!

[Luc Benac]

About fins it looks like Larry has a new fin our. Wide base, short length and some flex at the tip.
It could actually be a pretty good fin for speed on flat turning to choppy.
Need to squeeze Burchas for the details:
https://www.facebook.com/larry.w.allison/videos/10213777824912942/?t=15

[warmuth]

  I still have no clue how you guys measure fins faster or slower than one another. I just got done comparing boards and swapped fins half way through, no real change. Even runs with the same fin were difficult to reproduce and that is just for .1 mile sprints. I am considering getting a small fin like a manta just to have another option to try and perhaps gain some of this hidden speed. I once tested my whiplash with different fin configurations and speed didn’t  measurably change, handling did slightly.

[Area 10]

  I still have no clue how you guys measure fins faster or slower than one another. I just got done comparing boards and swapped fins half way through, no real change. Even runs with the same fin were difficult to reproduce and that is just for .1 mile sprints. I am considering getting a small fin like a manta just to have another option to try and perhaps gain some of this hidden speed. I once tested my whiplash with different fin configurations and speed didn’t  measurably change, handling did slightly.

Yes, the gains are small. It takes a lot of patience and time to spot speed changes, and you need a proper experimental design and ideally several paddlers and boards. However, handling differences should be pretty obvious if you are doing things like surfing or technical races.

There’s a huge amount of BS spoken about fins. The basic principles are fairly simple. Beyond that it all gets a bit hazy. And in the final analysis, each person had their own handling preferences. For instance, many people find that long base fins aid tracking. But I don’t. In fact I find it easier to keep the board going where I want it to go with a narrow base fin. I have some theories about why this might be, but I doubt anyone in the world could tell me for sure.

Yes, that Nelo looks stunning. It would be great to have a brand producing light and durable boards at reasonable prices.

Btw, this lightcorp/nelo board certainly challenges the Starboard etc myth that you can’t have a proper paint job on a board and still have it light... no “brushed carbon” (aka sh**ty paint job) nonsense here!

[ukgm]

  I still have no clue how you guys measure fins faster or slower than one another. I just got done comparing boards and swapped fins half way through, no real change. Even runs with the same fin were difficult to reproduce and that is just for .1 mile sprints. I am considering getting a small fin like a manta just to have another option to try and perhaps gain some of this hidden speed. I once tested my whiplash with different fin configurations and speed didn’t  measurably change, handling did slightly.

As a few people know, I did manage to do this and had an online article or two on it. I now also have an open access scientific journal paper coming out in spring on the subject too.

[ukgm]

...and let’s not forget that at the 2016 ISA World championships in Fiji, Casper Steinfath won the technical race on a fin with area of only 28 sq ins. And he will generate more power at the blade than any of us.

I get the feeling that, as with paddle blades, the trend is to be going smaller.

Well, it’s power to weight remember. I put more power out on a bike than several top drawer Tour de France competitors but then I weigh 30kg more than they do. ;-) Casper is a lot smaller than me so whether he does put out more torque than someone like me at the blade isn’t guaranteed but going by when I met him last year, he looked about 20kg lighter than me and had a significantly more efficient stroke. That’s going to help. The only reason I suspect the Maliko was fractionally better than the tiger was that the smaller fin magnified my less effective stroke. The scaling fin to paddler thing is something John Becker used to talk about if I recall correctly. Small fins are low drag but you need a great stroke to match it.

[ukgm]

That board looks outstanding. I’m not sure it’s beyond me but I should find out in a couple of weeks time.

[Area 10]

...and let’s not forget that at the 2016 ISA World championships in Fiji, Casper Steinfath won the technical race on a fin with area of only 28 sq ins. And he will generate more power at the blade than any of us.

I get the feeling that, as with paddle blades, the trend is to be going smaller.

Well, it’s power to weight remember. I put more power out on a bike than several top drawer Tour de France competitors but then I weigh 30kg more than they do. ;-) Casper is a lot smaller than me so whether he does put out more torque than someone like me at the blade isn’t guaranteed but going by when I met him last year, he looked about 20kg lighter than me and had a significantly more efficient stroke. That’s going to help. The only reason I suspect the Maliko was fractionally better than the tiger was that the smaller fin magnified my less effective stroke. The scaling fin to paddler thing is something John Becker used to talk about if I recall correctly. Small fins are low drag but you need a great stroke to match it.

Well, I agree to an extent but this is only one of the factors to consider, and it might not be the most important one. Consider what happens to the fin when a board moves off its axis, first in terms of roll, and then in terms of yaw. Now consider the different effects of a fin that is (a) deep vs. shallow; (b) lots of rake vs. Upright; (c) long base vs. short base. You might want to dragging a few fins along in a deep bath to see what I mean

In this way, the right fin for you may be more about how much you can keep the board on an even keel (and avoid yaw). This much you will probably already accept. But it is the solution I am offering that might surprise you:

You introduce a lot of steer with a deep, raked, wide base fin if you move off an even keel (or if you yaw) and at the same time you make corrections to the direction of the nose more difficult, since a bigger fin resists correction. I see many people going for bigger, deeper and more raked fins thinking that this will improve their tracking. But actually it often has exactly the *opposite* effect. It’s counterintuitive I know, but sometimes less is more. In flatwater, big fins don’t so much compensate for poor form as exaggerate it.

So if you are weaving all over the shop like a drunk with a limp, then try a smaller, narrower-based fin in combination with trying not to wobble your board.

[warmuth]

  I was never a big fan of the ventral fin in flat water because of that. Countersteering was much harder and if the wind was blowing it was worse.

[Area 10]

  I was never a big fan of the ventral fin in flat water because of that. Countersteering was much harder and if the wind was blowing it was worse.

Yes, that’s right.

Let your blade and rails do the steering for you, not your fin.

[ukgm]

Going from 8.9 kph average on the AllStar to 9.3 kph average on the new board sounds very impressive.

It those kinds of gains are typical, then this rounder hull design might really catch on. Looks similar to the soft-railed NSP dugouts. Wonder how it compares with them in terms of shape details and speed.

No anecdotes yet of being mid pack in a race on one though.....

[Eagle]

The Nelo panel vee at the tail should provide some stability but the fin box looks well forward so that may affect straight line speed.  It does look to uave a nice high quality finish to the board like the Think.  Will be interesting to get your feedback ukgm after you put it through some tests.  Bit off topic but have you had a chance to do any multi-fin tests with your All Star?  You should be in a very good position to compare the 2 boards like proper soon enough.

[Larry Allison]

Have not been here for awhile because alot of you know pretty good about fins that I taught you. But it seems people after time loose there way sort a speak, no disrespect. But while everyone is talking about fin shapes and what is right and what is wrong. The FIRST AND MOST IMPORTANT THING IS FIN BOX PLACEMENT! If you don't understand that fin box placement dictates fin size and rake which dictates PERFORMANCE! Then you can forget about using the right fin! That is why it drives me crazy that people talk about my Ventral fin Concept when they never used it or they tried a version from someone else where the Fin Box was in the wrong place and didn't follow my instructions with the wrong fin. What I will say about this board company Nelo, they are the first to understand fin box place judging by where I see their fin box placed. Which means if you run a fin with a short core length and shallow with less surface area, you will burn out and spend more time in the water if you are not paddling in a Lagoon. Pretty simple fins have a purpose to balance of steering a board. As the boards become Higher volume and sit higher on water the fin will become a KEY piece and not a single fin because unless you are a balance champ then fighting a PIVOT POINT which is a single fin is a whole other issue.

[Luc Benac]

As a few people know, I did manage to do this and had an online article or two on it. I now also have an open access scientific journal paper coming out in spring on the subject too.

Don't forget to let us know about it, even if you cannot post it here for sponsoring reasons.

[warmuth]

Have not been here for awhile because alot of you know pretty good about fins that I taught you. But it seems people after time loose there way sort a speak, no disrespect. But while everyone is talking about fin shapes and what is right and what is wrong. The FIRST AND MOST IMPORTANT THING IS FIN BOX PLACEMENT! If you don't understand that fin box placement dictates fin size and rake which dictates PERFORMANCE! Then you can forget about using the right fin! That is why it drives me crazy that people talk about my Ventral fin Concept when they never used it or they tried a version from someone else where the Fin Box was in the wrong place and didn't follow my instructions with the wrong fin. What I will say about this board company Nelo, they are the first to understand fin box place judging by where I see their fin box placed. Which means if you run a fin with a short core length and shallow with less surface area, you will burn out and spend more time in the water if you are not paddling in a Lagoon. Pretty simple fins have a purpose to balance of steering a board. As the boards become Higher volume and sit higher on water the fin will become a KEY piece and not a single fin because unless you are a balance champ then fighting a PIVOT POINT which is a single fin is a whole other issue.

 Infinity may have installed my ventral fin improperly, can’t claim to have ever measured it. Perhaps they did and there are only pros to using one. I experienced both pros and cons.