Author Topic: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race  (Read 259432 times)

Luc Benac

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #600 on: January 14, 2019, 03:07:05 PM »
How is this going to work with the two twins working together to bring themselves and their sponsor to the podium?
It is interesting that they might accept to loose this advantage by serving two masters.
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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #601 on: January 15, 2019, 12:32:32 AM »
I can totally vouch that the Signature 2.0 isn't for lighter paddler - it's first and foremost designed for heavier paddlers. Currently, the board is getting on one of the three top podiums in Germany, and doing so consistently; the paddlers in question are in the 80 kilos range.

This is great news for Bruno. I also think that getting accomplished International paddlers onboard is really key (at least from a marketing stand point of view). I'd say Congrats in a hurry!!!

In the photo, you can see that we are dealing with agressive paddlers - and I again think that this is what the Nelo boards need.


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ukgm

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #602 on: January 15, 2019, 01:24:41 AM »
Bruno says “Every year my two trainers can improve my performance by 10-15%”. Ah, bless him. In a couple of years he’ll be so fast that he’s lapping himself.

He seems like a nice guy but I called them out on their resistance-based fin training device once (The 'Push' fin) which they claimed would increase your endurance if you used it. I said that by increasing the resistance only changes the speed of the board and that you'll only increase the physiological power of the paddler if they tried to keep the board moving at the same speed (or greater) as they were when using this resistance fin (thereby merely training with greater intensity as a means to get improvement - nothing new there and nothing to do with the fin). They wouldn't have it. It may be a language translation issue but their presentation is riddled with many errors or fraudulent claims. All it is was a tidier alternative to towing tennis balls or buckets (that many of us in rowing, K1 and C1 have been doing for decades). Their product does do this in a much neater and cleaner way and is a nice product but the accompanying text intentionally over-complicates it and makes it read like they have discovered something that nobody knew about (note: the text has been rewritten recently).

They are awesome athletes - no doubt - but I'd be very cautious at anything beyond that.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 02:02:32 AM by ukgm »

ukgm

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #603 on: January 15, 2019, 01:55:31 AM »
Bruno says “Every year my two trainers can improve my performance by 10-15%”. Ah, bless him. In a couple of years he’ll be so fast that he’s lapping himself.
Isn't he one of the two trainers himself though ?! Therefore he's talking about himself in the third person ?  ;D

10-15% in a year is huge. I don't know how they are quantifying that but I've only seen improvements (in terms of power output) in cycling or running to that kind of level by those who are new to a sport or were chronically overtrained before. 15% as a paddler (in terms of steady-state speed or heart rate reduction for effort) would turn me from the odd small local race winner to high international standard overnight..... and that's just for one years improvement.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 02:01:00 AM by ukgm »

ukgm

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #604 on: January 15, 2019, 01:57:48 AM »
How is this going to work with the two twins working together to bring themselves and their sponsor to the podium?
It is interesting that they might accept to loose this advantage by serving two masters.

I think the only real issue for this will the 11 cities. That's going to be interesting but paddlers working together for mutual advantage in races is nothing new and 'blood is thicker than water' as they say. I suspect nothing will change and that they'll use the time trials to separate themselves and work together for the rest.

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #605 on: January 15, 2019, 02:36:32 AM »
Bruno says “Every year my two trainers can improve my performance by 10-15%”. Ah, bless him. In a couple of years he’ll be so fast that he’s lapping himself.

He seems like a nice guy but I called them out on their resistance-based fin training device once (The 'Push' fin) which they claimed would increase your endurance if you used it. I said that by increasing the resistance only changes the speed of the board and that you'll only increase the physiological power of the paddler if they tried to keep the board moving at the same speed (or greater) as they were when using this resistance fin (thereby merely training with greater intensity as a means to get improvement - nothing new there and nothing to do with the fin). They wouldn't have it. It may be a language translation issue but their presentation is riddled with many errors or fraudulent claims. All it is was a tidier alternative to towing tennis balls or buckets (that many of us in rowing, K1 and C1 have been doing for decades). Their product does do this in a much neater and cleaner way and is a nice product but the accompanying text intentionally over-complicates it and makes it read like they have discovered something that nobody knew about (note: the text has been rewritten recently).

They are awesome athletes - no doubt - but I'd be very cautious at anything beyond that.
Quite. Hence the post I followed up with. 10-15% improvement a year is a ridiculous claim if you are already an elite athlete. It’s nice to see that’s he’s learnt something from Starboard though - maybe the 15% comes from resistance training with porpoises - the SHITA academy will teach you how to impart energy to the water and then harnesss it back twofold thus enabling you to actually leap across the top of the water like a flying fish.

I’m sorry. I have a low tolerance to BS marketing. Bruno is a superb athlete and it is amazing to see him represent Nelo/Lightcorp. It will really put them on the map with the SUP community. But he needs to learn the dividing line between marketing and outright lying.

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #606 on: January 15, 2019, 12:05:04 PM »
Quite. Hence the post I followed up with. 10-15% improvement a year is a ridiculous claim if you are already an elite athlete.

Cripes, you wouldn't even get that kind of lift with performance enhancing drugs let alone a one off boost by 10% in training of a well-trained athlete. The problem is, it only takes one bad anecdote like that and then you doubt the whole thing.

JEG

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #607 on: January 15, 2019, 01:21:58 PM »
Quite. Hence the post I followed up with. 10-15% improvement a year is a ridiculous claim if you are already an elite athlete.

Cripes, you wouldn't even get that kind of lift with performance enhancing drugs let alone a one off boost by 10% in training of a well-trained athlete. The problem is, it only takes one bad anecdote like that and then you doubt the whole thing.

maybe he's found a super drug whatever that maybe? I heard performance-enhancing drugs can boost your ego. I wonder when will the SUP racing authority do drug tests from pro to club level as I'm seeing SUP athletes looking a bit like the cycling community drug issues.

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #608 on: January 15, 2019, 10:50:28 PM »
Having met the lad, I can tell you that he's a young athlete, full of energy, driven to excel and always looking to better himself through extensive but appropriate training for him. He's super fun to be around, and more goal-oriented than most people I know. I could only hope that top athletes wouldn't do drugs, but reality may very well surprise us all.

The focus here is that I welcome the change, and very glad to see someone like Bruno veer towards Nelo / Lightcorp / Braca Sports.


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ukgm

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #609 on: January 15, 2019, 11:47:27 PM »

maybe he's found a super drug whatever that maybe? I heard performance-enhancing drugs can boost your ego. I wonder when will the SUP racing authority do drug tests from pro to club level as I'm seeing SUP athletes looking a bit like the cycling community drug issues.

Cycling is no worse than other sport. It has a bad rep but that's as its comparably so highly tested these days. You want to try sports like rugby or your local gym though....

Anyway, my original flippant comment was in reference to a 10% performance lift being larger than that of a PED - not a discussion about who could be using them. I don't think we shouldn't go down that road on a public forum otherwise it can get borderline slanderous eventually.

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #610 on: January 16, 2019, 12:30:10 AM »
Hate to admit it, but a 10% increase in performance in a year is very do-able. I will say that repeating the process for more than 3 years in a row may be brutal. Technique, physiology, food intake, experience, equipment, strength, and endurance (amongst other things) will greatly contribute - and do not happen overnight (unless your dream about instant gratification).

Strength is the easiest to gain - but can be useless after 45 minutes if you don't have other components lined up - like endurance.
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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #611 on: January 16, 2019, 01:13:22 AM »
Hate to admit it, but a 10% increase in performance in a year is very do-able.

Well, to discuss it, how would you quantify a 10% increase in performance ? - V02 max ? (not likely if already well trained and of a certain age), board speed ? (e.g. moving from a cruising speed of 9.5kph to 10.4kph is an unlikely power increase), bodyfat reduction ? (that's possible), functional strength (yes, but that doesn't impact directly on paddling speed wholesale).

They didn't say but I would say a 10-15% increase year on year improvement in any of my examples is unlikely at best and fraudulent at worst.

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #612 on: January 16, 2019, 02:43:11 AM »
Hate to admit it, but a 10% increase in performance in a year is very do-able.

Well, to discuss it, how would you quantify a 10% increase in performance ? - V02 max ? (not likely if already well trained and of a certain age), board speed ? (e.g. moving from a cruising speed of 9.5kph to 10.4kph is an unlikely power increase), bodyfat reduction ? (that's possible), functional strength (yes, but that doesn't impact directly on paddling speed wholesale).

They didn't say but I would say a 10-15% increase year on year improvement in any of my examples is unlikely at best and fraudulent at worst.

If the context is SUP racing, performance is measured by race times, which would make it obviously BS.
Maybe endurance - able to maintain a given speed for longer - but it seems like that would also translate to race times and is BS.
Or maybe it's of a more personal nature (and probably still BS  ;D ).
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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #613 on: January 16, 2019, 04:29:15 AM »
Hate to admit it, but a 10% increase in performance in a year is very do-able.

Hmmm, maybe for someone just getting started in endurance sports. But once you get into relatively good shape, an increase of 10% over more than 1 or 2 years probably means you weren't in that good of shape to begin with. A dedicated, nonprofessional marathoner would be very happy to run 2:30. If they went from that time to 2:15, then 2:03 then 1:50 at the end of 3 years!?!?

In any sport where it can be measured, 200 watts is an admirable output over 3-4 hours. Thinking that you could push that to 220 then 242, then finally to 268 in 3 years? I know competitive cyclists that would sell their soul for that kind of increase.

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #614 on: January 16, 2019, 04:41:23 AM »
Hate to admit it, but a 10% increase in performance in a year is very do-able.

Well, to discuss it, how would you quantify a 10% increase in performance ? - V02 max ? (not likely if already well trained and of a certain age), board speed ? (e.g. moving from a cruising speed of 9.5kph to 10.4kph is an unlikely power increase), bodyfat reduction ? (that's possible), functional strength (yes, but that doesn't impact directly on paddling speed wholesale).

They didn't say but I would say a 10-15% increase year on year improvement in any of my examples is unlikely at best and fraudulent at worst.
Yes. Improvements of that size are certainly possible if you are considering the year-long improvement in a very unfit person who starts (perhaps for the first time) a well-directed fitness, technique, and nutrition program. In fact, you could get improvements that are even larger, in that person. But if you are already a world-class, adult, elite, highly trained, professional athlete like Bruno then improvements of that size are pure fantasy.

It’s always 10%, isn’t it? In the first few years of SUP, several brands claimed each year that their new boards were 10% faster than last years. The figure was always “10%”. Of course, they weren’t, and after getting roundly criticised on forums like this, the brands stopped making such silly claims. Maybe Bruno is too new to the field to remember these lessons. Let your results do the talking, Bruno, and drop the BS. Your wonderful new sponsors will not thank you for making marketing claims that can’t be supported. It’s not a good long-term marketing strategy.

 


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