Author Topic: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race  (Read 85178 times)

Luc Benac

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1619
  • Super Natural British Columbia
    • View Profile
    • When not paddling...
    • Email
Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #570 on: December 16, 2018, 07:04:17 PM »
The board that Arthur Carvalho Mas Santacreu used to win the ISA sprints so convincingly against a field of bigger names?

What brand is that? Interesting shape. And the South African lady on a Naish Maliko (I am sure not a production one because of the weight).
ISA is still with the silly 12.6 rule I guess.
Javelin LE 14' x 26" 250L
Maliko 14' x 26" 264L
Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L
Ace-GT 17'4" x 27" 313L
KeNalu Mana 82/Blackfish Salish 71 & Andaman 82
#LAfins GTS 7.5

photofr

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 771
  • Dakine… fun
    • View Profile
    • Extreme Outdoor Photography
    • Email
Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #571 on: December 17, 2018, 01:17:37 AM »


I was told by another paddler that they found the 24.5 Signature a lot more stable than the 23.5 GT. I haven't tried the 2.0 yet. I may well do when I hand the GT back.

Very interested to hear more about the GT 23.5 being more or less stable than the Signature 24.75. Perhaps we’ll see different feedback based on Ocean paddling and flat water paddling.
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

photofr

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 771
  • Dakine… fun
    • View Profile
    • Extreme Outdoor Photography
    • Email
Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #572 on: December 17, 2018, 01:55:26 AM »
Why are people being so skeptical about reviews?

There’s a huge difference between a stroll who’s never been here before, with no honor to defend - AND someone like UKGM and the likes who have 1000’s of posts to their name and MUST at all cost provide accurate feedback and reviews.

Seems to me that UKGM really likes the board that he is demoeing. I can’t wait to see what he really has to say about this new GT.

I, for one, have given you guys the most straight forward feedback on the Signature 1.0 and 2.0 (both in the 14x23 version). You were given pros and cons without me holding back.

To recap:
The 2.0 is more suited for heavier paddlers (not so much for the 45 to 65 kilo market).

The 2.0 has many new improvements compared to the 1.0. The standing is flattened, though in my eyes "not enough". The front volume is fantastic for heavier paddlers and for DW, but not so much for ultra light paddlers as it catches wind.

Yes, there are quite a few drawbacks and potential fixes I’d like to see on the 2.0, but to be super fair, you guys seemingly only want to hear the bad news of any products.

Either way, the 3 things that still come up on top, and way on TOP are:
- DURABILITY... show me a board that will outlast Nelo’s construction.
- LIGHTWEIGHT... I never get used to it, on land just like on the water.
- AMAZING ACCELERATIONS... light boards boards and skis will get tossed around a little more than their heavier contre parts. However, the benefits you get out of a super fast acceleration are endless. At the start, you are gone. When wanting to sprint in order to shake off a paddler, it will just be so much easier because the board is just so light. After each turn, you will find yourself taking faster than before. Last, but not least, this is also an Ocean board, where each ripple asks you to accelerate, where each wave demands an increase of speed.

So you have analyzed all the pros and cons from this post and my previous ones... it is now up to you to see you find enough benefits in this new construction. Either, I vouch and am accountable.

Should you find anything that is remotely UNTRUE in my description of this new construction, I invite you to come talk calmy to me in person, or to contact me via email or phone. All my contact is visible on the home page of photofr.com

Cheers everyone.

And @UKGM - eager to get your feedback when ever you feel you are ready.
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

ukgm

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1247
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #573 on: December 17, 2018, 02:11:50 AM »
The board that Arthur Carvalho Mas Santacreu used to win the ISA sprints so convincingly against a field of bigger names?

That looks like one of the Mistral prototypes. I know it isn't but interesting nonetheless. No, its always been about picking equipment to suit the conditions of the race you'll expect. However, in this case, you need to get out of the blocks and ahead of the wash and to do that, you need a board whereby you can access the highest top speed as quickly as possible and the highest rate of acceleration. Hypothetically speaking, if the GT is any good, its the equivalent for me of dropping my body's race weight from 89 to ~85kg. That's a huge performance advantage. Once at cruising speed, with a high cadence stroke, you're not going to see much (if any advantage) but the gain would have been obtained in the first 10-12 seconds hopefully.

Area 10

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3776
    • View Profile
Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #574 on: December 17, 2018, 04:22:38 AM »
photofr- I think we are being generally very positive about the possibility of these Nelo boards. However, over the last 10+ years we have seen many race board designs produced that were fast for elite riders. It’s pretty easy to design a board that would be fast for Kai Lenny on a lake. Even I could do that. It’s also easy to create a very tough light board that is expensive. The difficult thing is to create a design that flatters all paddlers, and works well in real-world race conditions, and on real-world race courses. Many brands have made wild claims for their boards over the years, and many people connected to the brands have submitted “first impressions” reviews that were written during the inevitable “honeymoon period” of board demo or ownership. Many times, we have been told that X board is the best ever, and is the answer to all problems, only to have the same person just 6 months later say the same thing about some new design.

So forgive me if I’m interested, but slightly sceptical. I doubt very much that I could use either of these boards in a typical UK race, and I couldn’t afford one anyway. So, my enthusiasm is understandably muted. Why should it be otherwise? Give me a reason to be excited about this. It’s just another super-expensive specialist board designed for less than 1% of the paddling community paddling in very specific conditions. Meh.

ukgm

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1247
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #575 on: December 17, 2018, 05:37:08 AM »
1) Why are people being so skeptical about reviews? There’s a huge difference between a stroll who’s never been here before, with no honor to defend - AND someone like UKGM and the likes who have 1000’s of posts to their name and MUST at all cost provide accurate feedback and reviews.

2) Seems to me that UKGM really likes the board that he is demoeing. I can’t wait to see what he really has to say about this new GT.

3) Either way, the 3 things that still come up on top, and way on TOP are:
- DURABILITY... show me a board that will outlast Nelo’s construction.
- LIGHTWEIGHT... I never get used to it, on land just like on the water.
- AMAZING ACCELERATIONS... light boards boards and skis will get tossed around a little more than their heavier contre parts. However, the benefits you get out of a super fast acceleration are endless. At the start, you are gone. When wanting to sprint in order to shake off a paddler, it will just be so much easier because the board is just so light. After each turn, you will find yourself taking faster than before. Last, but not least, this is also an Ocean board, where each ripple asks you to accelerate, where each wave demands an increase of speed.

4) And @UKGM - eager to get your feedback when ever you feel you are ready.

1) The problem (as Area10 raises) is that there are so many badly conceived, biased or irrelevant reviews out there. Even if I threw as much data at testing this board as I could, my thoughts are not going to be as relevant to him as my style/nature of paddling is not representative of his own. And he is right - we've been here before with several other wonderboards.

2) I've currently only logged 4 total hours on it. My first impressions are very good so far. It's not perfect but I really like it. However, I haven't logged enough time on chop yet and I haven't raced it. Both of these experiences are crucial for me (and should have been accommodated by mid January when I hand it back). I think the really big question is surrounding it's price. Even if I think this is the best board ever, would I be willing to pay this much for it ? That's a question I can't answer yet.

3) This is actually the greatest problem I'm currently having with this board. I'm finding it hard to separate the bits I like that are due to its shape vs those created by its construction and its weight. I also think that the 'immediate' or 'direct' response it has due to its light weight is not going to be easy for everyone to adapt to (or just to frankly like) no matter how well it performs. I've gotten used to this quite quickly but then I'm used to surf ski's whereby the feeling is much the same.

4) There will be a full and detailed review in one of the online magazines coming out probably around February. My list of notes so far is very long already.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 06:32:23 AM by ukgm »

ukgm

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1247
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #576 on: December 17, 2018, 05:42:10 AM »
Give me a reason to be excited about this. It’s just another super-expensive specialist board designed for less than 1% of the paddling community paddling in very specific conditions. Meh.

You may well be right. It's an 'expert' level board in my eyes (not elite as I think many paddlers could handle it with enough time). If they did something like a 26 width version, that would satisfy the mainstream market and have many advantages for that kind of paddler.

For reasons of transparency though, I want to point out to everyone that I personally requested to test this board (it wasn't pushed onto me), was sourced as a loan via a friend I have in the industry and have been given the scope to review the board in a balanced way with no promises made or gifts offered in kind with respect to its outcome. I'm currently not sponsored and I've maintained that ethos to be able to test equipment like this.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 06:37:05 AM by ukgm »

Area 10

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3776
    • View Profile
Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #577 on: December 17, 2018, 01:10:06 PM »
Well, if I was going to be persuaded by any review, it would be written by you (or one of a select group of others here on this forum I’ve come to trust over the last X years). A common problem that reviewers have, apart from intended or unintented bias, is that relatively few people paddle lots of boards *in lots of conditions*. So they haven’t really built up enough of a mental database to be able to put their findings into context. The kinds of comparisons people find most useful are direct comparisons with other well-known model, e.g. “this board is noticeably more/less stable in chop than a Starboard Sprint 14x23”. Such comparisons certainly aren’t objective by any means, but they can be more helpful nevertheless than bland statements like “is super-stable”.

Actually, statements like that really p**s me off: I recently saw a very narrow version of a board design that is known to be a bit tippy, being sold with the assurance “it is super stable in all conditions”. Stable for who? Maybe Kai Lenny, but otherwise this is as close as a lie as it is possible to get - or else the seller has never tried a *really* stable board. Compare it with a baseline board and then we can judge.

ukgm

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1247
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #578 on: December 17, 2018, 01:54:15 PM »
Well, if I was going to be persuaded by any review, it would be written by you (or one of a select group of others here on this forum I’ve come to trust over the last X years). A common problem that reviewers have, apart from intended or unintented bias, is that relatively few people paddle lots of boards *in lots of conditions*. So they haven’t really built up enough of a mental database to be able to put their findings into context. The kinds of comparisons people find most useful are direct comparisons with other well-known model, e.g. “this board is noticeably more/less stable in chop than a Starboard Sprint 14x23”. Such comparisons certainly aren’t objective by any means, but they can be more helpful nevertheless than bland statements like “is super-stable”.

Actually, statements like that really p**s me off: I recently saw a very narrow version of a board design that is known to be a bit tippy, being sold with the assurance “it is super stable in all conditions”. Stable for who? Maybe Kai Lenny, but otherwise this is as close as a lie as it is possible to get - or else the seller has never tried a *really* stable board. Compare it with a baseline board and then we can judge.

You raise an interesting point. My current training board is a 14ft 2018 starboard allstar in a 23.5 width - the same as the Nelo. I was wondering whether it would be helpful to refer to that board or whether it would be more objective to ignore that entirely.

burchas

  • Mill Rock
  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1719
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #579 on: December 17, 2018, 03:03:44 PM »
You raise an interesting point. My current training board is a 14ft 2018 starboard allstar in a 23.5 width - the same as the Nelo. I was wondering whether it would be helpful to refer to that board or whether it would be more objective to ignore that entirely.

Even-though it's still biased, it would be more helpful if other boards you know well are referenced.
At least for me it paints some sort of a mental picture if you compare it in depth to a board I know well.

If you compare it with 2 other boards that are distinctively different, that can be super helpful in
understanding what is your point of view. Might even teach you something about your self in the process.

Sure is a time commitment. So Thanks for taking the time!
- M15 15x27x4.5 https://bit.ly/2WmuEpt
- Ocean Ripple 16x25 @ 251L
- SIC Standamaran (S-16) - https://goo.gl/7myGAo
- Wide Tail 10x31x4 @ 149L
- SIC FX 12.6 2X - https://goo.gl/GOkSHT
- Red 2017 Elite 14x25
- ZRE Lightning 75
- Kenalu Mana 82
- Kialoa Hulu 87
- QuickBlade Trifecta 86

Luc Benac

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1619
  • Super Natural British Columbia
    • View Profile
    • When not paddling...
    • Email
Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #580 on: December 17, 2018, 03:18:09 PM »
Even-though it's still biased, it would be more helpful if other boards you know well are referenced.
At least for me it paints some sort of a mental picture if you compare it in depth to a board I know well.

Yes that is the Sacred Graal of learning about a board without been able to try it.
I could totally relate to Area10 review of the Vapor and your review of the Maliko and could take the (wise) decision of buying these with only 5 minutes testing.
From there as soon as you review another board with that frame of reference, I am in known territory.
If I was into flat water and races, then I could compare what Bryce is saying about a board with the same confidence.

« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 03:19:56 PM by Luc Benac »
Javelin LE 14' x 26" 250L
Maliko 14' x 26" 264L
Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L
Ace-GT 17'4" x 27" 313L
KeNalu Mana 82/Blackfish Salish 71 & Andaman 82
#LAfins GTS 7.5

photofr

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 771
  • Dakine… fun
    • View Profile
    • Extreme Outdoor Photography
    • Email
Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #581 on: December 19, 2018, 02:48:34 AM »
@UKGM
You've paddled the Signature 2.0 (14x23) - if I recall correctly, right?
So far, what's your first impression when comparing the stability of the 2.0 (14x23) vs. the GT (14x23.5)?

I may not be the average paddler, but I am no Elite paddler, and I am certainly not an expert SUP paddler. Meanwhile, I still paddle often, and in a variety of conditions - with the 2.0 (14x23). I just don't see how or even why you would call the Nelo boards EXPERT BOARDS.

Based on 4 categories:
Beginner
Intermediate
Advanced
Expert Paddler

***
I would be very leaning towards calling the Nelo 2.0 (14x23) an Advanced Paddler board, but where would you stand on this?
***

FYI:
I would place the category (ELITE) between Advanced and Expert.
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

ukgm

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1247
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #582 on: December 19, 2018, 03:20:16 AM »

1) You've paddled the Signature 2.0 (14x23) - if I recall correctly, right?
So far, what's your first impression when comparing the stability of the 2.0 (14x23) vs. the GT (14x23.5)?

2) I just don't see how or even why you would call the Nelo boards EXPERT BOARDS. I would be very leaning towards calling the Nelo 2.0 (14x23) an Advanced Paddler board, but where would you stand on this?
***

Good questions. Here are my replies:

1) No I haven't paddled a 2.0 yet. I've been given the chance to though but I suspect the 23 is too much for me to sprint on at full power in a high quality race start. I'll likely try the 24.75 at my size. I'm 6ft 3 and 90kg so I'm inclined to be conservative.

2) Yep, this is always going to be a relative thing (as it is with surfski's). I only called the GT 23.5 alone an expert level board though. This is based on my experience so far that it requires constant attention but its manageable for me of paddles upto 90 minutes with only a couple of braces per session on flatwater and light chop so far. I would also add that my technical skills (turns and balance to be average-poor for a racer) but my raw level of fitness is quite high. My high centre of gravity doesn't help but in real terms many of the paddlers in this thread alone will be more technically competent than I am. I only train to the demands of an event I'm aiming at, not to be a better paddler generally.

photofr

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 771
  • Dakine… fun
    • View Profile
    • Extreme Outdoor Photography
    • Email
Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #583 on: January 04, 2019, 03:46:32 AM »
My Nelo board has been a real blessing, and there are so many reasons as to why I would highly recommend a racer (or serious paddler) to try one.

The price, however, is always a huge factor. I feel that you get a whole lot more from the Nelo hollow sandwich construction than the standard Styrofoam sandwich construction found in even the top brands like Starboard. In fact... here's another way to look at it:

3599.00 euros for a Starboard top of the line construction AND 3600.00 euros for a Nelo top of the line hollow construction. They can't even compare in terms of construction, where the Nelo could be considered BULLET-PROOF in comparaison.

Having said this, we'll all agree that it's a high-priced-item.
Here's the thing... how would you feel if I said you could get a nearly brand new Nelo Signature 2 board, yes, the full carbon hollow board with custom colors for 2400 euros?

My board still looks like new every time I wipe it down with a basic cloth. It's still in an impeccable condition... for 2400 euros, it's YOURS.

Regrettably, I am selling my 2018 Nelo board for 2400 euros. I need to fix my van - so contact me if you are interested.
ludovic@photofr.com

Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

ukgm

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1247
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #584 on: January 04, 2019, 05:57:45 AM »
My Nelo board has been a real blessing, and there are so many reasons as to why I would highly recommend a racer (or serious paddler) to try one.

The price, however, is always a huge factor. I feel that you get a whole lot more from the Nelo hollow sandwich construction than the standard Styrofoam sandwich construction found in even the top brands like Starboard. In fact... here's another way to look at it:

3599.00 euros for a Starboard top of the line construction AND 3600.00 euros for a Nelo top of the line hollow construction. They can't even compare in terms of construction, where the Nelo could be considered BULLET-PROOF in comparaison.

Having said this, we'll all agree that it's a high-priced-item.
Here's the thing... how would you feel if I said you could get a nearly brand new Nelo Signature 2 board, yes, the full carbon hollow board with custom colors for 2400 euros?

My board still looks like new every time I wipe it down with a basic cloth. It's still in an impeccable condition... for 2400 euros, it's YOURS.

Regrettably, I am selling my 2018 Nelo board for 2400 euros. I need to fix my van - so contact me if you are interested.
ludovic@photofr.com


It's worth noting though that I could buy a surf ski (which is bigger and more complex) using the same construction method to the same quality for far less though than one of these is new. I completely agree the Light Signatures construction quality blows anything available by any other brand away though.