Author Topic: VHF radios, DSC and MMSI  (Read 6516 times)

nalu-sup

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VHF radios, DSC and MMSI
« on: May 10, 2017, 07:07:33 PM »
My wife and I are planning on doing regular downwind runs on Maui over the next five months, both Maliko and Kihei. Since it will sometimes just be the two of us, we are wanting to be safety conscious. Having windsurfed on Maui almost every summer day for the past 30 years, we have dealt with our share of incidents at sea, and have learned that something as simple as carrying a length of extra line can make the difference between being able to help in a situation, or not.
We have read a little bit about carrying various communication devices while doing downwinders, and are trying to get more educated by those with more experience. We thought that we had found the perfect solution by carrying VHF  radios with the DSC system which will send out an automated emergency call complete with your GPS coordinates (assuming that the radio is GPS equipped). However, I have now learned that this will not work without an MMSI number programmed into the radio, and you cannot get an MMSI number unless it is connected to a registered vessel. At this point, it looks to me like you cannot use the DSC system unless you have a registered vessel, thought you could still use the radio to make an audio distress call on Ch 16.
Does anyone have any thoughts or experience with safety communications systems, especially on Maui? Types, brands, etc?
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PonoBill

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Re: VHF radios, DSC and MMSI
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2017, 08:25:23 PM »
I'll get a lot of flack, as I always do about this, but for most of Maui, a smartphone in a waterproof pouch is a great solution. I carry my iphone--in a lifeproof case in a bag with a magnetic closure. I carry it in my camel bak on my shoulder so I can have music--I can hear it fine with no headphones. The Maui lifeguards are speedial 1. I've never needed to use it for myself, but I used it for a sinking kayak once. Worked fine. I also use the MotionX app for pacing and trace, and have the compass app on my first page. That app will give you latitude and longitude under almost any circumstance.

Yes, you could carry a VHF radio. I have two of them, never use them.
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LaPerouseBay

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Re: VHF radios, DSC and MMSI
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2017, 11:26:49 PM »
I'd call the Coast Guard station and ask them about VHF radios.  I'll bet their antennas would hear you clear as a bell on either run.

I tried radios a few years back, they really are ideal for quick help - if you can keep them dry.  When the speakers and mikes fill with water they sound like garbage.  I had a few and they didn't last more than a few months.  They just quit.  Saltwater does that to stuff.  Maybe the new ones are better.     

Now I carry a PLB. 

And an old phone. But packed away and only used on shore if I stop short of the destination and need a ride.  I don't like carrying my good phone in the ocean.  Phones are expensive.  They don't work for shit if it's windy and sunny.   I can't read the screen or hear a thing.   

PLB is the one if you are in dire straits.  Push the button and they will come.

https://www.amazon.com/ACR-PLB-375-ResQLink-Buoyant-Personal/dp/B006JXY0CQ
 
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yugi

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Re: VHF radios, DSC and MMSI
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2017, 02:45:27 AM »
I'm jonesing for this PLB:
   http://oceansignal.com/products/plb1/

Wouldn't be much of a bother to bring along.

Anyone have experience with it?

addapost

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Re: VHF radios, DSC and MMSI
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2017, 03:50:33 AM »
I have no experience with Maui but plenty of experience kayaking and offshore DW SUP in New England. I carry both a cell phone and a handheld vhf marine radio (a waterproof icom right now). I would NEVER go offshore without a marine radio. I have used it to call for help twice for boats in distress that we came across while we were out playing in conditions. The huge advantage of the radio over the phone is when you make a call EVERYONE around you hears and responds. The last time I used it, we watched a large wave throw a brand new 30' aluminum work boat 10' in the air. It flipped and threw out all three crew. All their equipment including phones and radios were gone and they were all swimming in rough water. No one else was around and no one else saw the accident. They were in deep shit. We happened to be right there and called a mayday. In about 5 minutes we had three pleasure craft arrive who had been too far away to see what had happened but had been monitoring channel 16, heard our call and immediately showed up. The CG got there about 30 minutes later. All the swimmers had been fished out by the pleasure craft. I don't leave home without it.
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gone_foiling

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Re: VHF radios, DSC and MMSI
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2017, 08:51:34 PM »
Just complete the application and in the vessel area indicate sup/kayak. I did it not so long ago and it was fine. I have programmed that # into my standard horizon.
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nalu-sup

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Re: VHF radios, DSC and MMSI
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2017, 11:02:02 PM »
Thanks gzasinets. I did figure that out eventually, and have the MMSI numbers all set in my new VHF radios (one for me and one for the wife). For what its worth, my research led me to the Standard Horizon HX870. Not the cheapest, but reasonable for what it does. It has DSC which basically means that with the touch of one button it will send an emergency message out on a channel monitored by the Coast Guard. The MMSI info in the message includes who its from, description of the craft, GPS location, and personal info such as emergency contact persons and their phone numbers. I also like the fact that I can program in anyone else's MMSI number, and it will give me their GPS location along with navigation directions to that location. If anyone were ever to be separated from the group, we would be able to know their location and how to get to them. You can program in waypoints that it will navigate you to (stories of people being lost offshore in the fog).
Some of the other nice features are that it is waterproof, floats, comes with both a home and car charger, and has a strobe light that starts flashing whenever it hits the water. Pretty happy with it at this point, though programming all of its features takes a number of hours if you want to get everything it has to offer. To give credit where its due, Jeremy Riggs was the one who suggested I look into this unit. Thanks Jeremy.
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robcasey

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Re: VHF radios, DSC and MMSI
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2017, 01:36:57 PM »
First of all, take other precautions first to make sure you don't end up a pickle..
-Double leash in big conditions (in small conditions test your leash string and leash connections)
-Float plan (tell a friend of your departure/arrival info, where going, how to contact)
-Stay within your skill level or hire a guide like Suzie, Jeremy, Jaecy, Dave, etc.

And bring a communication device for both of you (if you get separated). Bill's info on the phone sounds great, test before you go. We use VHF's all the time for our classes offshore or in rough water.

Standard Horizon and ICOM both have floating hand held waterproof radios that are quite bomber and have great battery life (rarely charge).  Attach each on a string to your hydration pack or similar (or PFD, but I assuming no one wears PFD's in HI).

You can check the weather, communicate with each other like a walkie talkie, or call the CG if necessary. One issue is that high winds are noisy, so radio and 1-1 communication can be difficult. Hand signals are good back up there between each other.
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covesurfer

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Re: VHF radios, DSC and MMSI
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2017, 06:17:03 PM »
Phones have to be in waterproof cases. Those cases, in my experience, work great, until one day they leak. All of my cases have failed without warning. They are soft plastic pouches and are 'welded' on the seams. Eventually, they develop leaks, maybe just a pinhole, maybe more. But, it really doesn't matter because sea water and electronics just don't go together. Even a tiny leak means phone death.

Another issue with the phone, for me anyway, is that I can't see the buggahs. In bright sunlight, my screen is very hard for me to see. Plus, without reading glasses, I can barely work the thing. Lastly, with smart phones or i phones, you have to manipulate the screen through whatever kind of waterproof case they are in. PITA.

I've carried VHF's on the crossing over to Molokai but for everyday downwinders, they are kind of bulky and heavy. The ones I have used have been on loan and I have not ever purchased one of my own.

For me, the most convenient thing to carry is a Personal Located Beacon (PLB). I have an ACR ResQLink+. It's buoyant, compact and easy to carry. I put mine on my hydration pack strap so that, even if I lose my board or my OC, I have the beacon on me. It was about $260 on Amazon and they shipped it to Hawaii for free. You register the thing with the NOAA SARSAT Beacon Registry for free and you're good to go. By the way, for all the bad rap the government gets, NOAA's registration process was free, fast and efficient. Pretty cool. The PLB is drop dead simple to use and once you activate it, emergency services should start looking for you and be able to find you via the GPS signal being transmitted.

I have only had my PLB for a month now but I am making it a habit to always take it on downwind runs. I feel better with the thing on but I don't look at it as a substitute for using good judgement when evaluating conditions.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2017, 06:23:02 PM by covesurfer »

JP4

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Re: VHF radios, DSC and MMSI
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2017, 12:44:30 AM »
Cove, glad to see you finally got a PLB. I'm thinking of getting one for solo mtb rides. After nearly severing my leg, my fantasies about being able to drag myself out for help were quickly squashed  :o

For folks out in the open ocean I'd like to add that probably the best thing to carry besides a PLB is a small signal mirror. After having been on quite a few missions as an Air Force search and rescue pilot, I can say confidently that nothing will get you seen quicker in daylight than a mirror flash. Get one with the little aiming hole in it on a lanyard and put it in your hydration pack. A mirror flash can be seen for miles and when you learn how to aim it you can hit an aircraft pretty easily.
You'd be amazed how hard it is to even find a 150' fishing boat in heavy seas. Forget the signal flares, sea dyes, and smokes. We used to drop sea dye and smokes that were in canisters about 4' long and you could only see them when you were right on top of them. Now 2 million candlepower parachute flares, those are very effective, but probably going to be hard to launch from a paddle board  ;)

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Re: VHF radios, DSC and MMSI
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2017, 09:17:40 AM »
One advantage of having a phone in a LifeProof case inside of a waterproof pouch (I like the Sea to Summit these days) is you can call for a pickup. If you have to abandon the run or finish in another location the PLB is not much use when on-shore. But yea Cove is right, don't expect a phone to last if the plastic case is the only protection.

I do like the mirror tip a lot. I considered having reflective foil on my paddle for that use. Then I began to think what fish may think of it when I'm paddling.

The PLB and all the other great suggestions are not much help unless you have floatation.

JP4

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Re: VHF radios, DSC and MMSI
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2017, 10:18:57 AM »
The technology available to get yourself rescued now is pretty amazing. I remember the first rescue we did here in Oregon involving a cell phone. The Sheriff got a call from an injured climber who had used one of those new fangled cell phones on Mt Jefferson, a tall rocky peak with no easy ground approach. This was in the days before  GPS. Instead of sending out a C-130 and a couple helicopters to methodically search the area, we sent one helo directly to the victim and he was in the hospital a couple hours after making the call. The PLB's are a no brainer to me if you're thinking of putting yourself in a situation where you might be hard to find.
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covesurfer

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Re: VHF radios, DSC and MMSI
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2017, 11:16:52 AM »
The PLB is good for what it is, a true emergency device. You certainly don't want to deploy it in anything short of a life threatening situation. The ResQLink + includes a strobe, which is nice.

The mirror suggestion is great. Flotation is another topic altogether. In our warm water here, a lot of folks rely on minimal flotation that they can get from inflating the bladders of their hydration packs. Some people say 'swim in, flotation means you're a fish lure and it impedes your swimming'. But that means you have to be capable of actually swimming in through open water. When it's windy and rough in the ocean, currents can be brutal, and even a very strong swimmer might have difficulties. Bottom line is that PFD's save lives. And, in the event that you get injured, which is certainly not a remote possibility, you might not be able to swim even if you're an experienced open water swimmer. So, a PFD is something to really think about. I know that I should be taking mine but I end up feeling weighed down like a pack mule with a hydration pack and a PFD on. I think I need to shop some more and find one that I can actually wear without interference because I know I should be carrying one. 

The HX870 that Nalu talks about sounds like a complete package that does it all. I wasn't even aware that all that tech was available in a single device. Being able to communicate with others in your group is a great thing. Or, being able to call for help for someone else that's in trouble could save lives.

There are so many people on the beaches here that if you do have to bail early on a run, you can ask to borrow a cell phone to let someone else in your party know where to pick you up. If everybody doesn't show up pretty quickly at the finish of a paddle, the first thing we do is check our phones (that were left in our vehicles) for messages. Kind of a minimalist strategy, I know.

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Re: VHF radios, DSC and MMSI
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2017, 12:09:13 PM »
I got a unit called a Nautilus Lifeline GPS used on ebay for $80.  It is used mostly by divers because multiple units can communicate with each other walkie talkie style.

Got it for the Santa Cruz Island trip.

One button for walkie talkie, one button to hail ships within a given radius at rescue frequency and sends GPS coordinates, a third red button for all out rescue alert.

Waterproof, robust.  I don't think I would want to rely on waterproof pouches or cell phone signals out there.

I had no problem getting an MMSI number for it, it was pretty easy, I keep it in my email folder.
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nalu-sup

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Re: VHF radios, DSC and MMSI
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2017, 09:10:28 PM »
Hi Covesurfer. If you are looking for a flotation device that you will forget that you even have on, here is the one that I chose, the Onyx M16:http://www.onyxoutdoor.com/p/m-16-belt-pack-manual-inflatable-life-jacket-pfd. As you pointed out, I knew that it would just sit in the car if it was pain to wear, so that is one of the main reasons that we chose this one.
It is very light and snug fitting to your body, so we completely forget that we have them on. Inflates by either CO2 or by mouth (or both). It is similar to the Da Kine model, but I think it is much more snug fitting, and I believe still has a larger air bladder when inflated. It has a small neck strap to pull up over your head after inflation for a more secure fit. Of course it will not keep an unconscious victim alive without additional help, but I think that it would make the difference for most injuries or events, or for extended survival in rough seas. I have not tried swimming in mine yet, but I should do that just to see how much it would slow me down in progressing towards shore.
Whenever we meet up, you are welcome to try ours on.
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