Author Topic: Questions - probably semi-stupid ones, but here goes  (Read 2581 times)

APPST_Paddle

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Questions - probably semi-stupid ones, but here goes
« on: May 01, 2017, 07:23:22 AM »
Ok, so I've done a bit of research, but I must say I haven't fully embraced and scoured the internet looking for every detail regarding SUP foil yet. I am very interested in the possibility as it looks like a great niche to fill in some of the days that I would otherwise not be on the water. I'm a pretty competent kiteboarder, and a lot of people have moved to kite foiling, I am however quite hesitant, as I don't see the return on investment of time/money with a kite. I can pretty much kite with a surfboard in any wind that will keep a kite up (over 10 knots). Anything below that, I'll SUP.

So, with regard to SUP foiling, here are my questions:

1. Can you gain enough speed with a slight tail wind to get up and foiling without a wave?
2. My area rarely has small, long period waves, if it's small, it's generally local wind chop. Can you get up and foiling on basically knee high bumps?
3. How heavy/cumbersome is it to carry a distance (say 1/10 of a mile). One of the spots we have that may possibly work is a bit of a walk.
4. Is there anyone on the east coast using them on a consistent basis yet?

Thanks
7'6" JL Super Frank Lean
8'2" JL SuperTech 
10'1" JL Black and Blue
14' BIC WS Tracer
6'5" JL Flying-V/GoFoil Maliko 200
Kenalu Ho'oloa 95, Werner Rip Stick 79

SURFFOILS

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Re: Questions - probably semi-stupid ones, but here goes
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2017, 03:33:33 AM »
I'll have a crack at this for you. As a competent kite boarder I'm certain you have the skills to successfully SUP foil with just a few attempts. It's simply learning the balance points and a shorter mast should see you up and flying on a SUP foil very quickly.

Most of your questions seem to be about low power waves, weight and popularity of foiling in your area.

 Foiling needs a certain combination of human power and wave height to propel yourself down the never ending wave and a lot is critical on your weight. Kids can foil on almost any bump anywhere but as your weight increases you'll need higher waves to use gravity to allow you to foil. Kite foiling uses speed on flat water to lift but on a sloping wave you'll need a bit more wave height to successfully and consistently foil down the rising water within the wave. In the end, it may not be possible in your area to successfully SUP foil if the waves just aren't good enough but you could look for like minded folk thru local SUP or surf shops.

 I've cut the bottom half off an OTTO bin and strapped the middle of my SUP over the OTTO for balance. By balancing the board over the bin you're not lifting just pulling the weight along. With this contraption I have wandered for miles along streets and I've stashed it in the dunes and returned months later to retrieve it.
I'll post a pic if needed.
I'm sure you'll find someone here who foils in your area, you'll be amazed at the feeling and speed you can get on even a small wave. It's worth the effort in many ways.

APPST_Paddle

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Re: Questions - probably semi-stupid ones, but here goes
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2017, 07:07:13 AM »
I'll have a crack at this for you. As a competent kite boarder I'm certain you have the skills to successfully SUP foil with just a few attempts. It's simply learning the balance points and a shorter mast should see you up and flying on a SUP foil very quickly.

Most of your questions seem to be about low power waves, weight and popularity of foiling in your area.

 Foiling needs a certain combination of human power and wave height to propel yourself down the never ending wave and a lot is critical on your weight. Kids can foil on almost any bump anywhere but as your weight increases you'll need higher waves to use gravity to allow you to foil. Kite foiling uses speed on flat water to lift but on a sloping wave you'll need a bit more wave height to successfully and consistently foil down the rising water within the wave. In the end, it may not be possible in your area to successfully SUP foil if the waves just aren't good enough but you could look for like minded folk thru local SUP or surf shops.

Cool, yeah I think the first one I know of in the area is down in Tybee Island, a Jimmy Lewis rider. I'll do some more research. Thanks for the answers

 I've cut the bottom half off an OTTO bin and strapped the middle of my SUP over the OTTO for balance. By balancing the board over the bin you're not lifting just pulling the weight along. With this contraption I have wandered for miles along streets and I've stashed it in the dunes and returned months later to retrieve it.
I'll post a pic if needed.
I'm sure you'll find someone here who foils in your area, you'll be amazed at the feeling and speed you can get on even a small wave. It's worth the effort in many ways.
7'6" JL Super Frank Lean
8'2" JL SuperTech 
10'1" JL Black and Blue
14' BIC WS Tracer
6'5" JL Flying-V/GoFoil Maliko 200
Kenalu Ho'oloa 95, Werner Rip Stick 79

PonoBill

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Re: Questions - probably semi-stupid ones, but here goes
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2017, 07:42:03 AM »
Weight, drag and velocity are not your friends in the circumstance you're describing. You'll probably have to wait for a powered foil. Any foil that can lift your weight out of the water at 4mph is going to be draggy, so it's going to need a fair amount of power to get it to 4mph. Pumping works by varying the angle of attack, which increases AOA, drag and lift to pop the board up, and the decreases to gain a little speed by gliding down and doing it all over again. If you've got the legs for it, you might be able to make your weak waves work a little, but you need to get up in the air somehow to even start pumping.

Getting up on an unbroken wave is a real trick, the guys who are doing it are all pretty amazing. Watching Sam Pae foil is both inspiring and discouraging. It tells me that a guy at his weight (also my weight) can foil, but I also know Sam is a powerful guy and a great surfer. He's right at the edge of not being able to do it--you can see it in the videos. The band of possibility for him is probably a few pounds wide--if he has a big breakfast it might not work.

The point is that this new sport is a very marginal thing. The factors of weight, velocity, and drag are all toying with us. They do so at the upper edge of performance too--those featherweight kids are close to blowing out of a wave when they pick up speed. tipping the nose down to decrease AOA has it's own set of limits.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

APPST_Paddle

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Re: Questions - probably semi-stupid ones, but here goes
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2017, 09:01:52 AM »
Yeah, I'm 170 lbs. so not small, not huge. I'm in a wait and see standpoint right now, it's a lot of money for something that "may" work, also a lot of potential downfalls from a safety standpoint.
7'6" JL Super Frank Lean
8'2" JL SuperTech 
10'1" JL Black and Blue
14' BIC WS Tracer
6'5" JL Flying-V/GoFoil Maliko 200
Kenalu Ho'oloa 95, Werner Rip Stick 79

SURFFOILS

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Re: Questions - probably semi-stupid ones, but here goes
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2017, 02:51:40 PM »
If you're creative and good with your hands you could start with the basics of foil design and lift and look at making a very low speed foil. It would be perfect for riding the offshore swell rather than the wavelets on the swell.
 The problem with very small wind waves is that there's very little energy and it's in such small pockets as to be useful for long runs, that's why a surfable breaking wave gives such a large area to foil in.
 For a low speed foil prolly start with a large single Flat Plate unit of around 500 sq inches. Having a front foil that lifts and a rear foil that drags is just a waste of energy for any foil setup. Lift will be Newtonian so foiling the foil won't be necessary. Untrashort mast-10 inches, you could glass 3 ply with a few layers of 6 oz and that's all you'll need. Keep it under 1/4 in thick. Set its AOA parallel to the hull so both surfaces work together. It could be done for about $50 if you've already got some resin and glass.

SURFFOILS

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Re: Questions - probably semi-stupid ones, but here goes
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2017, 07:28:03 PM »
Here's the transport vehicle. Part OTTO bin and a few bits of pine timber. About 15 years old now and still going strong.
 It's good for carrying two SUPs, kids or if you've got shoulder problems.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 07:31:58 PM by SURFFOILS »

 


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