2018 Raceboard rumours ?

[Area 10]

Aww.... c'mon - no pics of the RS???!! Somebody please get your phone out and snap a pic or two and post it here for us to drool at and speculate about. It sounds great, and something I'd definitely be interested in.

[Eagle]

"The one thing I didn’t mention was that of equipment. It’s worth nothing that in the male 14ft fleet in particular this year, most paddlers in the top 10 are now using boards that were 21-24 inches wide. In fact the first guy really much bigger than that was myself on a 26 wide board in 12th. In addition, the only person ahead of myself not using a flatwater specific board was Mo Guy in 4th."

ukgm - very nice analysis and my take as well.  I kinda did the same sort of debrief when I was more serious about sailing.  You can gain a ton of insight looking at nuanced information available.  Sounds like the Maliko 26 gave you a really good result given your size and concerns.  The lads on the 21-24 wide boards are cutting down to narrower boards just like over here -> and still getting faster times.

A10 - my point was the Dom 27.5 is a very wide board which has a ton of drag -> and if you want to go fast on that board it takes a ton of sustained power no matter what size you are.  A narrower AS23 or 24.5 is much more efficient thru the water.  Larry switched to a AS25 last year and explained how much faster that board was for him vs the 2015 version.  Not many top racers use 25+ wide boards any more.  Just zaps way too much power with a ton of drag.  Even I can feel that as a really crappy paddler.

"The 2015 All Star was a hands down winner over the other brands I tested. The only board I tested that outperformed it was the 2015 Starboard Sprint."

http://www.larrycain.ca/blog/blog/

[Area 10]

Eagle - OK, so you are telling me that a narrower board is faster than a wider one? Thanks for that, I had no idea.

[Area 10]

Good view right now of the new SIC RS on the SUP Racer coverage of the Carolina Cup. Looks interesting.

[Eagle]

A10 - More precisely a narrower board is not only faster but is plenty stable enough as well to get winning results.

[ukgm]

Aww.... c'mon - no pics of the RS???!! Somebody please get your phone out and snap a pic or two and post it here for us to drool at and speculate about. It sounds great, and something I'd definitely be interested in.

Can anyone see if any of the big brands have new designs there ?

[ukgm]

Well it seems perhaps to me that in your particular case ukgm you are in a bit of a bind. Naish don't make a flat water board that is wider than 26", and because of your size and power, and the low volume of the Naish designs, you need 26" wide to be able to use your power. So, while nearly all the top guys in that race were (unsurprisingly since it's a river race) on flat water boards, you couldn't be. You actually got a remarkable pace out of a planing design, and that is testament both to your skill and endurance and also the Maliko design. But if there was a 28" wide Jav this year, I reckon you'd have found it stable enough for the choppy bits but slightly faster in the calm bits. Not a lot, but a bit. Anyway, we'll never know I guess. You could borrow an old Dominator I suppose, and time yourself on that. It's funny because some of the (wider) cutting nose boards don't feel particularly fast because human proprioception seems to be more sensitive to changes in speed than top or mean speed. So boards that accelerate well but also decelerate quite a bit can feel faster I think than those that maintain a higher average speed. I guess that's why we need GPS.

Anyway, if anyone can sort out these kinds of performance/design issues it's you. It's nice to have a (slightly) bigger guy towards the top in UK racing again, and so have these discussions play themselves out all over again - but this time with someone who might be minded to persevere to uncover the principles at work.

I've had a heads up of what Naish have planned for 2018 . If what I was told is true, it could be very interesting. I'll hold judgement until I see photos and specs though but my choices are always going to be more limited than most. I may get forced in the end to go custom if brands drop volume but I think at my height 25 is going to be my natural width ceiling. Having done a quick survey, I'm 3-4 inches taller and 5-10kgs heavier than most other comparable uk racers. The advantage I gave is that I'm only on SUP year 3 whereas everyone else are much more seasoned. That's probably why my time reduction at that race was go large.

Let's say starboard work on the concept of the sprint being slightly more versatile in chop (as someone mentioned earlier) - isn't that what the 2015 race was ?

[Luc Benac]

Let's say starboard work on the concept of the sprint being slightly more versatile in chop (as someone mentioned earlier) - isn't that what the 2015 race was ?

The 2015 Race was not a stable board at all. It could be fast of course but kind of wobbly.
Weight is definitely an issue - says the 170 lbs.....
At my weight at this stage if I was looking at a flat water board for non-racer, I would likely look at the Bark D2 or a Riviera both low volume and potentially available on the used market. The D2 likely my first choice at 26" wide. The Whiplash could also be an option but I do not want a board with a high deck and lot of volume.
If money was no object then of course.....I could see a custom Ban Pho or Riviera 16'x26" or something of the kind.
But realistically, I would just be thrilled to be able to upgrade my Blackfish 2015 to a 2017 and have a foot a little bit more into flat-water.

[Eagle]

ukgm - Basically what SB did was pull the Sprint and Race designs together and add triple concaves for increased stability.  Sprint with lower rocker and sharp reverse disp entry vs the AS increased rocker and cutting boof.  The flat bottom 2015 AS design was completely discarded.

The drawbacks are the big single concave is not optimal DW as the reviewer notes.  The Race 25 is very squirrelly - but the AS23 does catch and trip with all its longitudinal edges.  Simple design compromises.  The AS23 always feels like it wants to go straight vs turn -> but DW you want your board to turn fast and surf and plane.  The flat M14 does this well plus the panel vee Bullet V2 even better.  But the AS24.5 and especially AS23 not nearly as well.  The Maliko 26 and 24 would probs be much better DW.  Am still looking for a Maliko 24 btw for my wife.  Would be a very fast fun DW board by the looks of it.

As noted in my PM the other day -> the Race 25 is very tippy which correlates to what the reviewer refers to as twitchy even in the 27.5 he tested.  He is not exaggerating.  At all.  Would source a used AS25 and put on LA quads as noted.  The AS25 rolls but is pretty hard to fall off for most racing peeps. 

"This All Star is very fast and slippery feeling. Not the most stable, but the glide and acceleration are excellent. It would be best-suited for advanced and expert paddlers up to +/- 185 lbs. who want a fast board in a wide variety of conditions."

https://www.bigwinds.com/sup-blog/2015-Performance-Race-Board-Test

[Eagle]

From the BW link above are their averaged subjective speed values -

Starboard All Star 14' x 25” Custom Carbon 269 L. 25 lbs -> Speed 10
Bark D2 14’ x 26” Pro Elite 238 L. 27 lbs -> Speed 9
Naish Javelin LE 14’ x 26” 250 L. 20 lbs -> Speed 8.5
Infinity Blackfish ST 14’ x 26” Custom Carbon 22 lbs -> Speed 8
SIC X-14 Pro Lite 14’ x 24” 253 L. 23 lbs -> Speed 10
SIC X-14 Pro 14’ x 26” 253 L. 23 lbs -> Speed 9

[burchas]

Aww.... c'mon - no pics of the RS???!! Somebody please get your phone out and snap a pic or two and post it here for us to drool at and speculate about. It sounds great, and something I'd definitely be interested in.

Can anyone see if any of the big brands have new designs there ?

Here is the RS 14


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Luc Benac]

Not a bad looking board. At first look similar to the Sidewinder but then the nose does look more flat water oriented. Did you manage to see the thickness and width by any chance?
Not that it means much at this stage. The FX Pro was going to be 26" and lower volume based on the prototype and then ended-up what it is...
Running the triple but no ventral? >>> sorry you answered that one in your original post... all 4 fins, nice.

[Area 10]

Great pics, burchas, thanks very much.

Looks like the RS should be pretty stable for its width. I'm surprised the deck isn't lowered just a little bit more. That's what I was expecting. But maybe if it's got eg. the PPG in mind, then you'd want to minimise the deck lowering. I'd love to try one, it could be a very adaptable shape. Do you know what sizes it will be coming in?

[Luc Benac]

Great pics, burchas, thanks very much.
I'm surprised the deck isn't lowered just a little bit more. That's what I was expecting.

Yes I am looking more and more to this on a board flat/chop. More than 4.5 or 5 inches is not my preference.

[burchas]

That was Caio's board. Considering his background and level of paddling training
The dude is a monster, he did 8 minutes behind Annabel, and today was the
Worst day you can pick not to be in good paddling shape. Shows the raw talent the dude has (40 over all, considering Michael booth was 13th).

I helped him put the fins on the board cause he couldn't figure out how the
Twins work and the position of the center fin in relation to the twins.

I think the board was 24" and I think at the standing area is about 5'

Seychelle's board seemed a little different size wise but I'm not too sure about it
She ran a vmg 35Sqi fin and the small ventral  and  She also had ptreety good results considering she has no downwind experience and today was the day to use it to your advantage. This really demonstrate the board's abilities and the fact they chose to go with Larry's 4 fin setup for their production is a writing on the wall for what's to come.