2018 Raceboard rumours ?

[yugi]

Well, I've tested more boards than most over the last 10 years, and I'm a data freak. But try for yourself. The results might surprise you.

Do you think that Jo Hamilton-Vale would have been able to beat both the mens' and womens' world record for distance covered in 24 hours on a Naish Maliko - even one that is 2" narrower?

No chance.

Better,  ask her to do it again w a Maliko. Twice, once for each width.

<duck>

[yugi]

 
Anyone have any data on this? This stuff is so easy to tunnel test. Isn't anyone ever going to do that? ukgm, don't you have access to such facities at your university or at one nearby?

I haven't but Southampton Uni near me has one but there wouldn't be the money or interest to fund the research. If a board company wants that done (and will bankroll), it would be easy to organise.

Thought Southampton would have one, since the VPLP design guys studied there. (I actually visited years ago).

Can't you just convince/suggest some students to do it as a thesis? I'm sure there are enough looking for a nice easy useful research to do. Hey, I'm an open source kind of guy. Richard Stallman finally convinced me.

[Eagle]

Maurice Guy and Scott Warren improved their times a lot vs 2016.  Others finished about the same and others a bit slower.  Would be interesting to find out why those 2 in particular did so well this year.  Maybe those answers would shed some light to whether board or training or whatever impacted their 2017 race results.

But still your own self timed results give the best answer for you vs bs speculation anyways.  A stopwatch time and GPS distance both are very hard to dispute when repeated.  ukgm what is your take on the race results this year vs last?  How did your new Maliko 26 perform etc?

[burchas]

Burchas,
I will be heading out tomorrow for the Carolina Cup.  Not racing this year, but I will be watching closely, testing all the boards and having a few beers.  PM me if you are going and want to say hello.  I'll buy you a beer and we can talk boards.

I am at the C Cup with Tino (owner of Sunova)
I believe we will have some new stuff on display at the Carolina Paddleboad Company tent.

Please look for me wandering around and say hi!
I'll be the one that doesn't look like a racer 😂
Tino is a crazy little German!

Creek, I think I was way ahead of you. Just as I was done demoing all their boards,
Tino showed up, the guy who was showing the boards didn't know who he is, I had introduced him. i guess I missed you

Anyway, sick boards, their all- arounder 14x24 pro is a really solid board, very stable for its width,  very light as well. def my favorite of all of them.

Their 14' dugout is also super slick, could definitely use the Larry Allison 4 fin
Treatment.

[Luc Benac]

Their 14' dugout is also super slick, could definitely use the Larry Allison 4 fin
Treatment.

On the Ace-like (red or green nose) dugout?

Have you tried the Faast Pro (not sure on the name) it is a flat water dugout?

[burchas]

Their 14' dugout is also super slick, could definitely use the Larry Allison 4 fin
Treatment.

On the Ace-like dugout?

Have you tried the Faast Pro (not sure on the name) it is a flat water dugout?

Yes I meant the Ace like board. I did try the Faast Pro. Nose is pretty good
The board is heavy compared to the all arounder. Didn't feel as good as the
Whiplash IMO.

The all arounder however feels very good,  I did back to back run with it and the
Blackfish 23 2017. Very different boards, both super good. Def worth an extended look.

[ukgm]

Maurice Guy and Scott Warren improved their times a lot vs 2016.  Others finished about the same and others a bit slower.  Would be interesting to find out why those 2 in particular did so well this year.  Maybe those answers would shed some light to whether board or training or whatever impacted their 2017 race results.

I can give you the exact answer to that. Mo moved from a 12'6 25 width sidewinder to a 2015 14ft 23 inch wide starboard Allstar. Scott warren moved from a 12'6 to a 14ft starboard sprint. It's also worth noting that his job changed to allow him more time to train too.

I made one of the biggest time gains of 2016 vs 2017 ;-)

[Luc Benac]

It's also worth noting that his job changed to allow him more time to train too.

Yes for us still having to work, the office gets a lot in the way of the paddling :-)
Not only in time but also in mental energy.

[Luc Benac]

The all arounder however feels very good,  I did back to back run with it and the
Blackfish 23 2017. Very different boards, both super good. Def worth an extended look.

Good to know. So the all-rounder is the Faast Ocean?
God I hate their naming for the long SUPs, never know which board is which....

[TallDude]

It's also worth noting that his job changed to allow him more time to train too.

Yes for us still having to work, the office gets a lot in the way of the paddling :-)
Not only in time but also in mental energy.

Isn't that the 'F'n truth. Time on the water, don't pay the bills.... That is the difference for me as far as how well I do in a race (more than an inch narrower board). How much work I had the few months prior will dictate my finish time. 

[Eagle]

ukgm - The drop in times btwn the 12'6 vs the 14s was very substantial for both of them.  Around 7 min or 8% faster.  My time difference works out around 3-6% faster for my AS23 vs my Dom over 5 miles in the ocean depending on the conditions.  Steep side chop really slows down the AS23 and is its achilles heel though.  On flat that board is actually decent for a cutting boof and has a surprising small narrow wake.  DW the AS23 is not optimal for me as it is a touch too narrow and unstable for it to be a ton of fun.  Often it is more hang on and just stay dry on that board.  Always a challenge def DW.

Much easier is the wider AS24.5 or even better yet the Bullet V2 because you can stand super far forward on that board DW.  Speed DW might be a hair faster for the Bullet V2 once wind picks up to around 10 kts.  Have found every board has its own power zone and its weak zone depending on conditions.  No one board quiver for me.  Yesterday the V2 was perfect and today the AS23 was perfect.  Just enough each day to push my limits.

For my wife and I -> the boards we have are pretty much just right.  Was considering getting a Sprint 23 or 21.5 but really the AS23 is still quite a handful in slop and rough ocean water.  So sounds like you were happy with your new Maliko 26 then.

[Area 10]

Yeah but Eagle you are hardly the same size as ukgm, are you? It's a very different proposition him being on those boards, and you being. The Dom trims surprisingly well for the "a bit heavier than average" paddler.

But let's not get fixated on particular boards, or board comparisons. I was only using that as an example. My point was that I believe that in flat water or mild chop a good cutting bow design is faster in a straight line (for most people, and over a reasonable distance) than a planing hull board that is 2" wider. I was NOT saying that the Dominator is the fastest race board out there. Of course it isn't.

[ukgm]

ukgm - The drop in times btwn the 12'6 vs the 14s was very substantial for both of them.  Around 7 min or 8% faster.  perfect and today the AS23 was perfect.  Just enough each day to push my limits.

So sounds like you were happy with your new Maliko 26 then.

My 26 was ideal for me as there were 50 of us in the 14ft class packed into a narrow high sided walled river section. The chop on the line was massive but there was a huge train you had to be in at the start. My board is very forgiving and delivered on getting me to the right place. It struggled in the mid race glass section a bit but by that point it it came down to stamina anyway - many of us were holding a pace near or above 10kph.

You might find my light touch analysis article interesting about that race though here:

https://standuppaddlemag.co.uk/2017/04/10/race-intelligence-a-snapshot-analysis-from-the-head-of-the-dart-sup-race-2017/

[Area 10]

Well it seems perhaps to me that in your particular case ukgm you are in a bit of a bind. Naish don't make a flat water board that is wider than 26", and because of your size and power, and the low volume of the Naish designs, you need 26" wide to be able to use your power. So, while nearly all the top guys in that race were (unsurprisingly since it's a river race) on flat water boards, you couldn't be. You actually got a remarkable pace out of a planing design, and that is testament both to your skill and endurance and also the Maliko design. But if there was a 28" wide Jav this year, I reckon you'd have found it stable enough for the choppy bits but slightly faster in the calm bits. Not a lot, but a bit. Anyway, we'll never know I guess. You could borrow an old Dominator I suppose, and time yourself on that. It's funny because some of the (wider) cutting nose boards don't feel particularly fast because human proprioception seems to be more sensitive to changes in speed than top or mean speed. So boards that accelerate well but also decelerate quite a bit can feel faster I think than those that maintain a higher average speed. I guess that's why we need GPS.

Anyway, if anyone can sort out these kinds of performance/design issues it's you. It's nice to have a (slightly) bigger guy towards the top in UK racing again, and so have these discussions play themselves out all over again - but this time with someone who might be minded to persevere to uncover the principles at work.

[burchas]

Well, it looks like SIC is going with Larry Allison's 4 fin setup as well.
Their new all water board ( called the RS ) looks like an hybrid of the
X pro and the Blackfish.

It even has a slight channel on the bottom towards the the tail, very much
Like the Blackfish but much more subtle. Nose is much sharper.

Tail is much narrower and the deck is recessed about 1 inch.

Rideordie, if you read this, look for Seychelle or Caio Vaz to see the board.
It looks like Caio is using all 4 fins for this race twin stealth, 6" Stinger and
A small ventral.