2018 Raceboard rumours ?

[Rideordie]

TD, I will bite..... So, how fast was it??? 

[TallDude]

Faster than any 210 lbs + person has ever gone on their 14' board, any width any shape, any material, or any color...  
It's a bird...It's a plane, It's TallDude and not too far behind the pack. 
It's just the big and tall (or just heavy) dilemma. Nothing of the rack (14') is going to be right for us.

[Area 10]

Yes. But I think that the "all-waters" type designs are popular largely because they make drafting easier, as well as the fact that you can buoy turn them more easily (than flat water boards) and are better for beach starts etc. Plus you can go narrower for a given stability. In other words, they are popular for racing because of their ease of handling rather than their out-and-out speed. Planing-nose boards can however be surprisingly quick over very short sprint distances, if you have the power.

At least for the casual racer, a big attraction of these boards is that you can race them effectively (or at least enjoyably) in a wider range of conditions (including changing or unpredictable conditions). A 14x25 "all-water" board might be a little slower in glassy water than a narrower shape that's optimized for clean conditions, but realistically for me, the difference probably doesn't even put me one place higher/lower in the middle of the pack final results. But when conditions get a little messy, I'm probably falling quite a few places behind and having a lot less fun on the narrow flatwater-optimized board, as I'm falling in constantly and wasting energy balancing instead of paddling with power and form.

At least that's what I told myself when I ordered a new Sidewinder! 

I believe that for most people, a 2" wider displacement nose board is faster than a 2" narrower planing nose one in most conditions that racers will face. But paddlers are so fixated on going narrow now that they don't seriously consider it. The only issue really is drafting. But for many people that is becoming the whole secret to race success.

We started off with displacement noses (once past the Naish Glide V1 stage) on race boards (e.g. Bark Dominator). IMO the pendulum will swing back one day, once people realise that what you are pushing in front of you is more important in terms of drag than a couple of inches width where you are standing. I suspect that people discount displacement designs these days because they think they are too specialised but in fact unless they are crazy extreme designs (think Fanatic Strike V1) they are actually surprisingly adaptable.

[ukgm]

I heard a rumor that a big blue board brand was going to shift marketing focus from their all-water board to their flatwater board, which they will tweak a bit and start recommending for anything flatter than knee high chop.

Conversely, I was speaking to a brand rep this week who told me that they were going to delete their flatwater model entirely - instead choosing to go with a tweaked all water board.

[ukgm]

I believe that for most people, a 2" wider displacement nose board is faster than a 2" narrower planing nose one in most conditions that racers will face. But paddlers are so fixated on going narrow now that they don't seriously consider it. The only issue really is drafting. But for many people that is becoming the whole secret to race success.

That and a good start. If you don't make that first train, no 23 inch board is going to save you. In other words, for 95% of the field, they likely should be selecting an allwater board as narrow as they can get full power out of.

[yugi]

I believe that for most people, a 2" wider displacement nose board is faster than a 2" narrower planing nose one in most conditions that racers will face.

... once people realise that what you are pushing in front of you is more important in terms of drag than a couple of inches width where you are standing. ...

Hmmmm... a good question. I'd like to have a data backed up answer to that. I'm not buying your confusion just like that.

I know you are a huge fan of a displacement nose [for flatwater speed] and you find a planing nose pushes water. I'm not so sure.

Of course widths are relative to a shape. For example a JL Rail is fish shaped and is 26.5 at the widest point but rides like a narrower board. 
 
Anyone have any data on this? This stuff is so easy to tunnel test. Isn't anyone ever going to do that? ukgm, don't you have access to such facities at your university or at one nearby?

[Area 10]

Well, I've tested more boards than most over the last 10 years, and I'm a data freak. But try for yourself. The results might surprise you.

Do you think that Jo Hamilton-Vale would have been able to beat both the mens' and womens' world record for distance covered in 24 hours on a Naish Maliko - even one that is 2" narrower?

No chance.

https://youtu.be/xpk3qFex3rA

[ukgm]

 
Anyone have any data on this? This stuff is so easy to tunnel test. Isn't anyone ever going to do that? ukgm, don't you have access to such facities at your university or at one nearby?

I haven't but Southampton Uni near me has one but there wouldn't be the money or interest to fund the research. If a board company wants that done (and will bankroll), it would be easy to organise.

[supthecreek]

Burchas,
I will be heading out tomorrow for the Carolina Cup.  Not racing this year, but I will be watching closely, testing all the boards and having a few beers.  PM me if you are going and want to say hello.  I'll buy you a beer and we can talk boards.

I am at the C Cup with Tino (owner of Sunova)
I believe we will have some new stuff on display at the Carolina Paddleboad Company tent.

Please look for me wandering around and say hi!
I'll be the one that doesn't look like a racer 😂
Tino is a crazy little German!

[Luc Benac]

Do you think that Jo Hamilton-Vale would have been able to beat both the mens' and womens' world record for distance covered in 24 hours on a Naish Maliko - even one that is 2" narrower?
https://youtu.be/xpk3qFex3rA

The flat water in the canals is mesmerizing.
I have not seen anything as flat for a couple of year, when able to catch a windless/current-less/tide less dawn paddle.
I would not share with anybody - least of all 200 sups :-)

[warmuth]

I believe that for most people, a 2" wider displacement nose board is faster than a 2" narrower planing nose one in most conditions that racers will face. But paddlers are so fixated on going narrow now that they don't seriously consider it. The only issue really is drafting. But for many people that is becoming the whole secret to race success.

That and a good start. If you don't make that first train, no 23 inch board is going to save you. In other words, for 95% of the field, they likely should be selecting an allwater board as narrow as they can get full power out of.

  Its always a compromise in some area. A narrower all water board will be the best in some specific amount of rough water but not ideal for a flat race nor a rougher one. It will be decent at everything though so it's probably a prudent choice for a one board solution. I'd still always rather be on a flat water board in a flat water race though.

[ukgm]

I believe that for most people, a 2" wider displacement nose board is faster than a 2" narrower planing nose one in most conditions that racers will face. But paddlers are so fixated on going narrow now that they don't seriously consider it. The only issue really is drafting. But for many people that is becoming the whole secret to race success.

That and a good start. If you don't make that first train, no 23 inch board is going to save you. In other words, for 95% of the field, they likely should be selecting an allwater board as narrow as they can get full power out of.

  Its always a compromise in some area. A narrower all water board will be the best in some specific amount of rough water but not ideal for a flat race nor a rougher one. It will be decent at everything though so it's probably a prudent choice for a one board solution. I'd still always rather be on a flat water board in a flat water race though.

My other point is that unless you're right at the front, you'll be in choppy water, not flat water for the first 10-15 mins.

[Area 10]

Well I reckon that ukgm would have been better off in the Head of the Dart river race he did recently on a 14x28" Bark Dominator than he was on his 14x26 Naish Maliko. That would be very simple to test.

However I just don't think that a person who considers themselves "a serious racer" would be seen dead on a board over 26" wide these days, whether in fact it would be faster for them or not.

Hard to beat the smoothness of a cutting bow in anything even approaching flat water.

https://youtu.be/4oN8GtBh0sU

[Eagle]

Most brands have a flat water board and an AW board for good reasons.  Jav vs Maliko - Whiplash vs Blackfish etc etc.  Some top racers here are going Sprint 23 and Sprint 21.5 for flat this year and AS23 for AW.  About 23" wide seems to be the cut-off point for most average joe racers where balance starts to impact speed.  Best is to simply time yourself over set 5 mile AW distances.  Repeat a few times at race pace and your answer will be pretty clear.

Oddly the amount of drag upwind of the Bullet V2 in breeze is not that bad for a surf nosed board - but the DW advantages seem to compensate more than expected.  DW speed timed was the fastest ever for me - and was a big eye opener.  That board glides like crazy DW.  But balance and how tippy one feels is very personal -> and repeated timed runs make it pretty easy to sort through questions on speed vs width.

For flat would go FW specific like the Jav or Whip or Sprint.  For chop or slop or DW -> the Maliko or BF or AS.  Basically just move up a width if a board feels too tippy for you.  For most top serious racers and pros though - a 23" wide board is super stable.

Larry makes that original 27.5 Dom fly but it has a ton of drag at sustained race pace.  A narrower board can be more efficient like the D2 for many.  Pulling a Dom at that constant speed is extremely hard.  Have tried it many times as that board was my first board.  But Larry is a special breed. 

[ukgm]

Well I reckon that ukgm would have been better off in the Head of the Dart river race he did recently on a 14x28" Bark Dominator than he was on his 14x26 Naish Maliko. That would be very simple to test.

However I just don't think that a person who considers themselves "a serious racer" would be seen dead on a board over 26" wide these days, whether in fact it would be faster for them or not.

Hard to beat the smoothness of a cutting bow in anything even approaching flat water.

https://youtu.be/4oN8GtBh0sU

If an ironing board was faster, I'd race that. I have no scruples about racing boards wider than 26 if it will make me faster.