Author Topic: Tuttle Box vs. Plate Mount  (Read 6466 times)

dns

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Tuttle Box vs. Plate Mount
« on: April 06, 2017, 09:16:23 AM »
Looking to mod a board and take the plunge, but trying to figure out a mounting solution. Slingshot, GoFoil, and a couple others use the Tuttle box while Lift, Horue, and Moses favor tracks and plate mounts.

I'm kind of favoring the plate mount so I can also use the same setup for low wind kiting, but is there any significant advantage of one over the other?

TonyGring

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Re: Tuttle Box vs. Plate Mount
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2017, 10:46:35 AM »
I have a Tuttle. Friends have mixture of plate and Tuttle.  No advantage over either from what I've heard / seen.  More important is board length and mount placement.  Good luck !

PonoBill

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Re: Tuttle Box vs. Plate Mount
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2017, 11:26:43 AM »
I think the structure of your board and how you mount a plate vs tuttle has a lot to do with which might potentially last longer.  A complete answer is long, but might not make much difference since most people won't really know which way their board is stronger. A standard plate mount might rely on the skin of your board being robust, while a tuttle being more of a through mount but with worse leverage properties relies on the overall strength of the board.
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Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

supthecreek

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Re: Tuttle Box vs. Plate Mount
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2017, 01:27:45 PM »
My friend Paul used the stick on plate to attach his brand new foil to a brand new SUP
Hit a rock on the 1st paddle.... entire foil fell off and sank. He couldn't find it.

Later, someone saw it.... he dove in without a wetsuit (in New England) and recovered his gear

He came up with a leash to keep the foil from sinking if it falls off again.
Paul had no problems during his 1st, 2 hour, SUP surf foil session. He did pretty well, as a matter of fact.

What do you think of the "leash" idea for "stick on gear?"

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Tuttle Box vs. Plate Mount
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2017, 02:37:03 PM »
Tuttle is better if you know exactly where you want it.

Dual finboxes win when you need to move the foil slightly to accommodate different foils, lifting different.

I've seen dual finboxes leak on MHL boards.

Tuttle is stronger being connected to deck.

Beasho

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Re: Tuttle Box vs. Plate Mount
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2017, 02:45:30 PM »
Tuttle is stronger being connected to deck.

What happens when the Tuttle rig "Hits a Rock?"  Hopefully you just elegantly slip off the front of the board and come up smiling. 

dns

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Re: Tuttle Box vs. Plate Mount
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2017, 05:15:43 PM »
I'm definitely NOT a fan of the stick on mount. Even if it doesn't rip loose it's definitely going to work the skin of the board loose from the EPS foam eventually and probably peel off half the underside.

I do want a review of his Lift Foil though.

Doing dual tracks, again as EPS is relatively weak, I'd inlet a block of high density foam, perhaps with a couple wood micro stringers, and bond that all the way through to the deck.

May be a moot point though. On kiteforum a guy had a pretty good argument for the GoFoil design with much more rounded edges as his friend got tumbled in a wave (with another companies wing) and got his face layed open from the sharp edges. Nothing is truly safe, but I'd rather be tumbled with a baseball bat than blender blades.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Tuttle Box vs. Plate Mount
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2017, 05:43:33 PM »
Tuttle is stronger being connected to deck.

What happens when the Tuttle rig "Hits a Rock?"  Hopefully you just elegantly slip off the front of the board and come up smiling.

It's repairable in the worst cases. Around here, that's hitting a manatee at full tilt boogie (30 mph or more).

surfcowboy

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Re: Tuttle Box vs. Plate Mount
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2017, 02:35:06 AM »
I've been considering how to do the fin box mounts with a chinook-type deck connection and it almost seems the same trouble as a Tuttle. Probably start a thread on this but I think the HD foam is a start for sure. I think I'd want a 12" x 15" bottom to deck cassette installed at least on a non-production board. Or then there's the idea of a sort of poor man's sandwich around the boxes on the bottom where you'd glass under and over a 1/4" layer of HD foam around the plate as well.

DW, no issues with a Tuttle in a custom board's relatively thin skin?

SUPflorida

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Re: Tuttle Box vs. Plate Mount
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2017, 05:10:29 AM »
I am kinda surprised no one has brought up the option of 8. lb density pour foam around the attachment point...that is... cutting out a section of the EPS and replacing it with 8 lb foam for mounting your box/attachment point ... whatever flavor you choose.
I use to use that sometimes instead of divinycell with my windsurf mast boxes....never had a problem with of them. It makes it easy to fill a whole cavity with out voids, bonds tenaciously to pretty much anything and everything..and is closed cell...take note I'm talking 8 lb not 2 lb floatation foam they use in boats that does absorb water readily (despite their claims)....and is really weak.

PonoBill

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Re: Tuttle Box vs. Plate Mount
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2017, 05:46:44 AM »
Are you routing the foam after it sets? I've found the stuff hard to work with. Catches the bit and tears, and it won't sand well.
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

SUPflorida

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Re: Tuttle Box vs. Plate Mount
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2017, 06:54:13 AM »
Pono...yes, mask everything with plastic around the opening as this stuff sticks like you won't believe...including your hands (goes without saying to use gloves). Cut out the area you want to replace> mix and pour it in the clean hole> sand it flush with 8" 40 gritt disk close to flush> fine tune with hand sanding block> Route to fit your box>laminate over to taste.
I know this works for the loads that are exerted on a windsurf mast track or fin box...but someone with more engineering creds would have to sign off if it could stand up to the forces generated by a foil.
It works fine for a hole a couple inches bigger than a standard box in all directions... it may not be the best way when having to reinforce an area 12"X15" or more. The divinycell sheet transferring the loads over a larger area of bottom would seem to be the better option for that.

It is a great way to repair a conventional fin box issue.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 06:58:19 AM by SUPflorida »

PonoBill

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Re: Tuttle Box vs. Plate Mount
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2017, 07:16:00 AM »
I have a couple of gallons of the stuff. I use it primarily for making custom fitted seats for race cars. Mix it, pour it into a double plastic garden trash bag that's been taped to the upper edge of the seat, let it foam a bit and have the driver sit on it. That's how geezers like me handle cornering G's.

Yes, I know what a bitch it is to clean up. That's why the double bag. Only had to learn that lesson once. I got it in my hair once.
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Beasho

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Re: Tuttle Box vs. Plate Mount
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2017, 07:53:42 AM »
Rectavit:  This is the recommended glue.

I was asking Stretch about the structural properties of Gorilla Glue, which he turned me on to 10 years ago.  I specifically asked if you could just glue in a box with Gorilla Glue rather than heavy pours of Epoxy.  He 'suggested' that Gorilla Glue may get compromised by extended exposure to moisture.  However this was the stuff he was using to glue in Tuttle boxes used to mount foils for Peter Trow.

Aka - Route a hole, insert Tuttle Box and use this expanding polyurethane glue to bond and fill gaps.

Hard to find this stuff.  Please help if you know where to get it.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 07:56:39 AM by Beasho »

Beasho

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Re: Tuttle Box vs. Plate Mount
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2017, 07:58:38 AM »
Here is a clip of Peter Trow on the Stretch board, filmed by Ian Boyd of all people.  Whats up with all ex-windsurfers, Dasher, Matt Schweitzer, Ian Boyd . . becoming film makers?

 
« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 08:05:25 AM by Beasho »