Geezer Foil 2

[Bean]

Move forward, as in shifting more weight to the front foot, not cross-stepping...

[mrbig]

Advice from Kalama who knows a thing or two about many things including foiling.

As soon as it starts to lift, press down on the front foot. The one move to practice, ideally on a boat, is the Huntington Hop variation..

Most, if not all, of the wipeouts on video are from a runaway schnozz. Straps help so they say..

[PonoBill]

Bob--simply venting. I foolishly coached the great helper I had last year to clean and organize the place into getting a job organizing one of the larger high-tech companies around here. talked myself right out of a great asset. She'll be running the place in ten years.

Big, bean and black--you're thinking of a board with one mast and a two foot fuselage at the bottom. GF2 has a little wing up front, and nine feet back a second, much larger wing. Dave commented on the GF2 saying something about it being a good place to sit on the beach. A nice, sturdy, carbon fiber geezer bench.

I don't think anyone knows how to make this thing fly yet. But I did some calculations again last night. at 15 mph I have 1200 pounds of lift--if the rear foil is fully submerged. I'm pretty sure it won't be. It would probably be bouncing off the surface like a skipping stone. Unless maybe I get another three fat geezers to ride it with me. Not a pretty mental picture.

[TallDude]

This is kinda like what I've had in mind. I still want to paddle it...... FAST.  Not pump, surf, or downwind.
 

[Bean]

Dave commented on the GF2 saying something about it being a good place to sit on the beach.

Hey, good is good...he's just jealous.  But just in case, pack some sunblock...

[PonoBill]

TD!! That's the GF2 -- sort of. Change the front wing to just a little foil wing and move it to the nose and we're done here.




Here's the front wing, and the base for the wing being bagged. Three layers of carbon and two of 6oz satin. That's my ultrasonic leak detector at the top of the mast base. I don't know how people do bagging without one. Thanks DW.



I faired the base of the wing with chopped carbon.

[LaPerouseBay]

This is kinda like what I've had in mind. I still want to paddle it...... FAST.  Not pump, surf, or downwind.

Not to be a stick in the mud TallDude, but that idea won't work on flat water.  Swell energy is needed to get an Sup up on a foil.  Olympic level K1 paddlers can get a foil kayak up for short distances.  Once up, they go like the wind, but not for very long.  No way an sup blade can generate the watts. 

[TallDude]

Never say never. It may just release a little skin friction. Let me rephrase that. With a little less skin friction, it may release some.......Almost as if to lube it up..... The board I mean.

[LaPerouseBay]

/
We have amazing copper gutters on Ponohouse. We didn't have them on the building across the pool, so we had some done. Yikes. These are super deep to accommodate the tile roof and hand formed in a style that isn't commercially available so it's priced like art. My butt is still sore. You can see them in the video. http://www.ponohouse.com/
/

Check out these gutters.  Almost totally hidden.  Very spendy.  Worked on this house back in 98-99.



I covered rafter tails and put up facia for about a year.  Just the mahagany.  The framers did magnificent work.   



This one is a vallley, but you get the idea. About 12" high. 



Almost blind fastening.  Plenty o glue.



Pop on some jacks



Then some facia.  Solid mahogany. 



Brutal working conditions.   



Nice house.  Audrey teaches people how to make money at Berkeley.  She built this one at just the right time.  Rumor has it the value doubled before she moved in.  Some say tripled.  She didn't mind that the materials for the roof alone cost more than ALL the materials for Ponohouse. 
Nice details everywhere. 



 

[PonoBill]

That's wild.

Lots of ways to make money in the world. If I had it to do over, I think I could manage a few more zeros, but I'm not sure it matters.

[Bean]

Yes, nicely executed!

[blackeye]

Big, bean and black--you're thinking of a board with one mast and a two foot fuselage at the bottom. GF2 has a little wing up front, and nine feet back a second, much larger wing.

Yeah, I get it. I'm just trying to understand why folks choose the foils they go with. Particularly the seemingly established practise of using of an anhedral main wing by others. I would think it would make a board twitchy and all wrong for beginners. I get that it makes for a carving machine for the experienced. 

Its fun to watch the youngsters do what they do, but the only way I'm going to foil is on something a lot more stable. I'm excited for GF2 and hope it's successful enough for you to keep going with it.

Today I found a lot of basics here (probably for the fourth time - I'm too scattered to remember) http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/hydrodynamics-aerodynamics/ and their multihull forum.

[mrbig]

Actually, I have been thinking about the Geezer, short 10" masts in single foil designs, and the surf cowboy plywood experiment.

My terse speaking, or texting style, does lend itself to confusion I confess. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. And I wasn't raised in that church.

A serious question on the geezer design relates to my sense - and this could be wrong  - that it would be very close to the surface of the water and more easily influenced by chop, swells, and motion in the ocean.

I saw a video of a guy riding a boat wake on a one foot mast and the board was constantly contacting the wake. In the ocean he would have been swimming.

Let me know if any of this makes more sense..    

[surfcowboy]

Any reduction in chop contact is a win. It's true that my foil was bouncier than a tall foil, the reduction in bounce was marked. I think on a big board in anything but the worst chop you'll feel quite a difference. That, coupled with the reduction in drag and I think the GF2 will be a fun ride.

Ok, maybe the GF4 and CF3 will be fun rides. Ha!

[PonoBill]

It's a possibility it will bounce like crazy Big, but the way most of the forces work it should stay on top of chop. The nose is the tricky part--single wing, and if it dips, the AOA decreases, meaning the dip isn't resisted. I might have to add a surface sensor and flaps. Mr. Efferding thinks so. Fortunately, he has a beautiful high-aspect wing with flaps that would be ideal for that. But we're going to try simple first. If only because I spent a lot of time building the damned thing.

My theory is that the nose will bear little weight, and the wing will be near the surface--adjusted by standing postion. Hopefully not popping wildly out on every bounce.

The tail is self-stabilizing both for roll and for bounce. Lift the wing higher and the wing area drops quickly because of the angles. Push the wing deeper and the lift increases rapidly because of increasing area. I think just moving forward or back on the big, stable platform will keep the thing under reasonable control. The angled sections of wing have the most aggressive foil. The center span is almost symmetrical.

As always, we'll know soon. I think I'm going to name this thing the HRFS We'll see. (Hood River Foil Ship).