Geezer Foil 2

[PonoBill]

I'd like to do that, but I'm rarely around when the epoxy is in that state, and too forgetful to rely on it. I stuff the boxes with EPS and sand over them. I do manage to clean up the trim lines when the epoxy first gels--sometimes. That usually happens just before I turn the lights out. I trimmed the front and back edge of the S-Glass on the SimSUP, but the mast tracks were too soft to try.

[PonoBill]

I just tried it before I headed out to lunch with Diane--still too wet. It's a worthwhile thing to attempt since routing out the slot is so easy to screw up. I cut down the middle with a Dremel and then use a carbide file to match up the edges. A lot of time for a little slot.

[surfcowboy]

I appreciate that you are paving the way for me in these mounts. I really don't trust my board skins but seeing that Kings Tuttle makes me think that it's not that big of a deal.

I think your carbon patches are the deal, making a big plate on the bottom, in effect.

I'm really thinking that the dual mast mount makes way more sense. Even if you connect them to the deck it seems easier than the Tuttle overall.

Those Chinook boxes that connect to the deck seem like they'd be good encased in some HD foam.

As to your AOA stuff, I think you're on track and yeah, shims will let you test. I taped tiny washers onto my foil and stuck a screwdriver in my wetsuit so I could tweak on the beach.

[PonoBill]

Yeah, I think this is going to work well. We'll be testing this stuff pretty hard, not just the geezer foil, but a number of new SUP foils as well. I'll know how well it all holds together very soon.

Oh, and DW, I happened to still be in the shop when the big carbon patch was in a good state to try your method. Holy buckets, that's ever so much easier. Thanks. As usual, your tips save me time, effort, weight and money.

[blackeye]

I've been playing around with the relationship of front to rear foil. I think if I set the nose to be slightly high with a neutral AOA and neutral AOA in the tail foil, then any weight shift forward reduces AOA on both front and back and therefore reduces lift. Might be good, might be terrible. It's something I can easily tweak with shims.

Just pointing out that if you "set the hose to be slightly high", you will have slightly negative AOA for your transition from displacement to foiling. I suppose on the face of a swell this will be short-lived.

I notice that the SUFoilS (SUF? SUFS?) riders stand quite forward on their boards. I would figure their COG should be about where the mast is but instead they are forward of the front wing. They must be countering a nose up pitching moment but I don't know why. Do the rear wings have negative AOA relative to the forward wing? If so, makes sense for carving those lovely turns they do, but it must be draggy.

With that in mind, back to your board. Maybe a bit of negative AOA would help you turn.

[PonoBill]

Probably true. The big SUP foils with a lot of area and asymmetric high-coefficient foils generate way too much lift when speed increases. If they pop out of the water with a little positive AOA at 4mph then at 8 MPH they are generating 4 times the lift and want to leap out of the water. the AOA needs to be pushed negative to keep them in the water.   They have no control other than full manual so what you got is all you got.

The geezer foil surface area declines as it lifts, so there's some compensation, plus the distance from front foil to back foil is nine feet. I'll be able to walk forward to push the nose down, and when I do the AOA of the rear foil goes more negative and the foil should settle. I have no real idea what the starting conditions should be, just a lot of guesses. The anwer to almost every question is "we'll see".

I just need to discipline myself to spending two days in a poopy suit and respirator, sanding and filling the lumpy thing. then we'll toss it in the water and learn some stuff.

[blackeye]

I forgot to add a quote from a Sailing Anarchy discussion on this topic. The most common sense approach was "In practice you just stick them on the boat and go flying, and if it seems wrong change it."

[PonoBill]

That's about it. I know how to do the math, but that' doesn't mean the crap I build is gonna work like the textbook says.

I checked all the mast bases today with real mast nuts. For some reason I thought I needed six--I need twelve. I think I cleaned out Big Winds. On a positive note both the L41 and the Recon 11'11" are ready to go. Now I need to clean my shop a bit, sand the geezer foil, and assemble all the bits.

You'd think I could find a couple of interns or hire someone to help out, but no. The gutter guy that came to my house today to look at replacement said "June--maybe". I said, "you're the only gutter guy around for 50 miles, can't you hire a bunch of guys and teach them to do this?" We had a good laugh over that. He's 58 and said he thinks his back might hold out for five more years. He can charge pretty much anything he wants.

All these people, including my brother, who think we have an immigration problem need to put the fucking bong down and look around.

[Admin]

You'd think I could find a couple of interns or hire someone to help out, but no. The gutter guy that came to my house today to look at replacement said "June--maybe". I said, "you're the only gutter guy around for 50 miles, can't you hire a bunch of guys and teach them to do this?" We had a good laugh over that. He's 58 and said he thinks his back might hold out for five more years. He can charge pretty much anything he wants.

Assuming that was Barry, June, Maybe means August, possibly.  Hysterical guy though and awesome work.

[Bean]

Copper gutters really do require some special skill and care but will also last a lifetime.  Here on the EC we still have had an abundance of day laborers ready to go at many of the local quick-marts, although currently spring cleanup is absorbing (er, ah, adsorbing?) most of them.

[PonoBill]

You'd think I could find a couple of interns or hire someone to help out, but no. The gutter guy that came to my house today to look at replacement said "June--maybe". I said, "you're the only gutter guy around for 50 miles, can't you hire a bunch of guys and teach them to do this?" We had a good laugh over that. He's 58 and said he thinks his back might hold out for five more years. He can charge pretty much anything he wants.

Assuming that was Barry, June, Maybe means August, possibly.  Hysterical guy though and awesome work.

Who else could it be? He's it.

[PonoBill]

Copper gutters really do require some special skill and care but will also last a lifetime.  Here on the EC we still have had an abundance of day laborers ready to go at many of the local quick-marts, although currently spring cleanup is absorbing (er, ah, adsorbing?) most of them.

We have amazing copper gutters on Ponohouse. We didn't have them on the building across the pool, so we had some done. Yikes. These are super deep to accommodate the tile roof and hand formed in a style that isn't commercially available so it's priced like art. My butt is still sore. You can see them in the video. http://www.ponohouse.com/

Hood River doesn't have anyone looking for work. The folks with signs at the freeway entrance no longer use the "will work for food" shtick. I suspect they get too many people stopping and offering jobs.

Both the Recon and the L41 are ready for foil duty. Sometimes I just hate myself for proceeding when I know I shouldn't. Out of Kwick Kick and Additive F, shop too cold, no decent paintbrush? No problem, I just want it sealed, I don't care how it looks. Oh wait, I do care, what's with the fisheye and the brush bits. IDIOT!



I don't like shiny finishes on the bottom of surfboards anyway, so it's no big deal to sand it, but the fisheye will remain.

 

[surfcowboy]

In composites you get to pick your own definition of "done." It's all strong enough, it's just how tweaky you wanna be. Right?

My cosmetic bar is lowering now that I've done a couple of nice ones. I'm ready to move fast and prototype.

[stoneaxe]

All these people, including my brother, who think we have an immigration problem need to put the fucking bong down and look around.

Are you going daft in your old age? I've only said we have an illegal immigration problem. Stop paying able bodied people to sit on their ass, and allow for legal immigration, illegals can no longer be exploited by business....wages go up for all....people are less inclined to sit on welfare because they can now get a job that pays better than it does......do all that and finding folks to do work will be easier. Break the illegal cycle bro...that's all I want.....and the reason I want it to change is so that wages can rise for all. Put your own bong down and tell me the restaurants, hotels, construction, etc, etc...don't take advantage of illegals to pay less wages and skip other requirements legal workers bring.

On another note...why the fuck would you want to bring politics into a thread on foils.....isn't the shitshow enough without polluting other threads with it?

[blackeye]

The big SUP foils with a lot of area and asymmetric high-coefficient foils generate way too much lift when speed increases. If they pop out of the water with a little positive AOA at 4mph then at 8 MPH they are generating 4 times the lift and want to leap out of the water. the AOA needs to be pushed negative to keep them in the water.   

You have reminded me that the two wings don't increase lift proportionately. The bigger wing's lift increases far more and thus the centre of lift moves forward. Hence the rider must move forward to keep the COG in line. Not just to force the AOA more negative, but as a steady state because the COL has moved forward. If he slows, he moves back.