Author Topic: Geezer Foil 2  (Read 14344 times)

surfcowboy

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4050
    • View Profile
Re: Geezer Foil 2
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2017, 08:37:40 AM »
Bean, throwing in another variable!

This is all becoming a word problem. ;)

GOTWAVZ

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 319
    • View Profile
Re: Geezer Foil 2
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2017, 10:35:42 AM »
Are the gates needed?  It looks strong as is.

US fin box mounts is a great idea for your T foil and would be cool for GF3 for the Flat V.  I am thinking of doing that for both of the flat V's on my Swell Sled.  Two plates in each box.  4 boxes.  Maybe a foot of combined fore/aft adjustment with long boxes.

Yes, I think so. This is a fast and loose build and the joints need a lot of strength and rigidity if they aren't supported. Might be overkill, but that's my middle name. Well, actually, I don't have a middle name, but if I did...

The wrap on the edge of the upper plate worked better than expected. I think I'll foil the bottom edge to make it easier to glass and wrap it, and go for a good size overlap using the peel ply "technique" which is another terms for "bodge".





I want to see that on your electric car (not really).....where is that car...was that a tease? I want to do the same thing was hoping to learn from your journey:)  sorry for the hijack...just got me thinking.
HB, CA, Oahu, HI
JK 7'-8' x 28"x 4" = 99L
JK 7'-10" x 41/4" = 106 L
Joe Blair Gun 8-10" x 28 x 4 1/4
198 lbs - 5'-9"

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 23597
    • View Profile
Re: Geezer Foil 2
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2017, 11:08:38 AM »
Just getting back into it. The delay turns out to be beneficial--there are a lot more packs coming from wrecked Volts, Leafs, and refurbs from tesla swapouts than there were a year ago. I'm probably going to use about 20KW worth of Tesla battery that I can get for about 4K instead of the 20K it would have cost for new batteries a short while ago.

The car is on the lift. I'm getting ready to order the parts. Step one is getting the best transmission. I wanted to go with single speed gear reduction, but the only company that makes a suitable transmission has been unresponsive after some initial enthusiasm. So I'll go with a Toyota trans. 
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 23597
    • View Profile
Got Wings
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2017, 05:43:08 PM »
Received these today. The masts and plates didn't come, but I started on the wings. One layer of carbon, five layers of 4oz on the bottoms. The odd looking one I'm extending with an aluminum plate to make a lower speed wing.




Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

SURFFOILS

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 205
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Geezer Foil 2
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2017, 06:04:00 PM »
Bill, that looks great, sturdy me ready to fly.

 Bean, you asked...

"Doesn't the mast height also factor into the ability to sustain glide?  In other words as the foil is slowing and sinking, the height of the mast would help determine the amount of glide before the bottom of the board contacts the water. "

On a wave, the foil should be constantly lifting rather than pulsing. But the mast length helps with the 'Huntington Hop' pumping. At the end of the wave , as the power reduces you just lean very slightly back to increase the AOA.


Bean

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4091
    • View Profile
Re: Geezer Foil 2
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2017, 08:15:16 PM »
If you lean back too far will the foil stall, like an airplane wing?

And, yes the HH is exactly what I was thinking about when I made that comment.

SURFFOILS

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 205
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Geezer Foil 2
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2017, 08:48:17 PM »
The HH is quite effective in getting around, it still looks a bit awkward...

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 23597
    • View Profile
Re: Geezer Foil 2
« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2017, 11:07:37 PM »
Got the masts today. Did a first layer of 10oz carbon and one of 60z glass because I couldn't get the heavy carbon to lay down--should have stuck with 6oz. So I covered it with wide pieces of fiberglass, flipped it over and lightly stapled the stretched FG to the wood, then wet the glass and the edges of the folded carbon. We'll see how that turns out. Looks OK so far. On one mast I cut the margin of the glass and carbon too narrow on one end, but I need to shorten one mast a bunch anyway.



I'll probably do the same thing on the other side, but I'll go wider with both the carbon and the fiberglass and get an inch lap. I'll do it as a cut lap but do the cut after the glass cures. Gonna take t light touch not to weaken the carbon. Maybe I'll just let the carbon have a fuzzy edge and just sand off the glass on the taped lap.

I've been playing around with the relationship of front to rear foil. I think if I set the nose to be slightly high with a neutral AOA and neutral AOA in the tail foil, then any weight shift forward reduces AOA on both front and back and therefore reduces lift. Might be good, might be terrible. It's something I can easily tweak with shims.

I don't think I'm going to put carbon on the baseplates. Doesn't seem necessary. Maybe a carbon patch over the fillet. I'll use chopped carbon to make the fillet.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 11:22:28 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 23597
    • View Profile
Re: Geezer Foil 2
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2017, 08:52:07 PM »
I have a talent for making work for myself. While I was working out a way to do the mast without bagging it, I thought "this would be a good place to do infusion". But no. Instead, I did "Infusion without bagging" also known as "Hey stupid, that isn't a good idea, here are ten reasons why."

It might have been forgivable, might have even worked, but it's cold and rainy in Hood River and cold in my shop, so I put the resin in a water bath, and then didn't watch the temp. By the time I was ready to mix resin the water was boiling. Any rational human being would have waited for stuff to cool but I thought "better wetting" and mixed the resin. As I started to work I felt the cup get warm, so I dumped it on the masts, hoping thinning the layer out would slow the exothermic reaction. Too late. I got it spread and worked it into penetrating, but it's a little uneven, which means lots of sanding and probably another layer of glass before hot coat. Dickhead.

Should have bagged it.


I laid a strip of masking tape down, then taped the carbon to with little strips of taping, finishing with a full strip of tape. Then did the same thing with 6oz glass. I cut both the fiberglass and the carbon precisely, laying down a strip of tape and cutting up the middle, leaving the tape in place. If I were making a suspension component for a race car, this is how I would do it, but I'd bag it and infuse the epoxy. I don't know WTF I'm thinking doing it as wet layup.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

SURFFOILS

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 205
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Geezer Foil 2
« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2017, 12:20:20 PM »
You're on top of it now !
Bagging is so much simpler and cleaner, I worry about all the chemical cancers the old factory guys get. Washing hands in Acetone, heating food in the same microwave as they do the resin.....scary stuff.

LaPerouseBay

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1891
  • downwind dilettante
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Geezer Foil 2
« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2017, 02:04:00 PM »
/
I worry about all the chemical cancers the old factory guys get. Washing hands in Acetone, heating food in the same microwave as they do the resin.....scary stuff.


+1 Surfoils.  I see it at construction sites and have to look away.  Acetone goes through the skin and directly into the blood stream.  Worse yet, it penetrates the blood brain barrier - our last defense for the central nervous system.  That filter can stop viruses and bacteria, but not acetone.  Bad stuff. 

Workers mock me when I tell them to use gloves.  "Girls use it for nail polish remover."  Google search doesn't help much - until you start to dig a bit.  Yeah, it does very bad things to people. 

Shop guys know.  Epoxy guys know.  Odorless fumes are the spooky ones.  I use vinegar for cleanup.  Lots of gloves.  If the immune system ever gets "sensitized" its over.  No more epoxy work, ever.  It happens with certain species of wood too.   

Years ago I was exposed to an odorless chemical (foundation waterproofing) that almost killed me.  I passed out and fell  through a floor, clipping my jaw on a joist.  The floor below wasn't concrete yet, still gravel.  I woke up with a broken jaw.  Nobody saw me, no clue how long I was out.  Don't remember a thing before waking up.  Close call.  Surgery, back to work and on the water in 2 weeks.  Liquid diets sure suck though, six weeks of it.   :(   

Always a silver lining.  Now, a fresh carbon respirator available at any possible exposure. 

Good air is underrated and taken for granted.  Breathing is THE most important thing for health and fitness.   
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 02:06:44 PM by LaPerouseBay »
Support your local shaper

paddlejones

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 460
    • View Profile
Re: Geezer Foil 2
« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2017, 07:11:50 PM »

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 23597
    • View Profile
Homebrew Foil Boards
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2017, 11:40:56 PM »
I need to spend a day filling and sanding the Geezer Foil, and I still need to finish the front wing, but I'm dodging all that sanding to get the boards ready. Rod Parmenter has a new SUP foil, and I want to try my SUP version of the clearwater foil. So I did this to my trusty L41. I'm going to make some inserts so I can still surf with it, but I think it will be a great foil board. I have no idea what a big stiff section of carbon will do to the surfing characteristics, I think I'm clueless enough to not notice it, but we'll see.

I reinforced the EPS with some more EPS, but this is four pound construction board. Not as stout as PVC by any means, but better than the one pound popcorn.



I went with a full band of carbon and a layer of 6OZ S-glass. I'll sand and hotcoat tomorrow, then Dremel out the slots and be ready to rock.



In preparation for the rear GF2l and front wing I further butchered my long-suffering Recon 11'11"


I don't think I need carbon on the back--there's quite a bit of helpful leverage in both the width and the length of the mount. But for the front wing I did a little double carbon patch and two layers of 6oz.



« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 11:45:21 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Dwight (DW)

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3984
    • View Profile
    • supSURFmachines
Re: Geezer Foil 2
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2017, 03:59:02 AM »
I like to cut the boxes open with a knife. Right when epoxy cures enough to still be flexible. Before it gets rock hard. I like getting a peak inside to ensure no drips. It's nicer than using trimmer bit the next day. For me anyway.

SURFFOILS

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 205
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Geezer Foil 2
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2017, 04:22:41 AM »
DW, like the joy of freehand cutting laps with a razor blade when you know it's set but you can cut and peel it off.
 PonoBill, I can't wait to see the Geezer foil in flight, it's going to be great.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 04:24:18 AM by SURFFOILS »

 


* Recent Posts

post Re: Neil Pryde is Coming
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
Admin
Today at 01:44:47 AM
post Re: Can We Talk Stabilizer Geometry?
[Foil SUP]
Admin
Today at 01:28:08 AM
post Re: Twisted wings anyone?
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
PonoBill
August 14, 2020, 10:41:21 PM
post Re: I got GONG'd
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
PonoBill
August 14, 2020, 10:39:55 PM
post Comparisons of 10 wing brands
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
Phils
August 14, 2020, 07:44:40 PM
post Re: I got GONG'd
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
paddlur
August 14, 2020, 06:39:50 PM
post Re: I got GONG'd
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
all~wet
August 14, 2020, 05:06:10 PM
post Re: I got GONG'd
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
Wetstuff
August 14, 2020, 01:49:32 PM
post Re: Heading to San O this weekend. Anything I should know?
[Foil SUP]
Dusk Patrol
August 14, 2020, 01:36:55 PM
post Re: Heading to San O this weekend. Anything I should know?
[Foil SUP]
TallDude
August 14, 2020, 01:28:21 PM
post Re: Heading to San O this weekend. Anything I should know?
[Foil SUP]
Evan Lloyd
August 14, 2020, 12:40:48 PM
post Re: I got GONG'd
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
clay
August 14, 2020, 12:20:02 PM
post Re: I got GONG'd
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
Wetstuff
August 14, 2020, 12:08:25 PM
post Re: I got GONG'd
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
TallDude
August 14, 2020, 11:47:28 AM
post Re: Ahhh .. I am healthy ..' sure to over COVID
[Training, Diet, and Fitness]
Wetstuff
August 14, 2020, 11:40:50 AM
SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2020, SimplePortal